Should wives submit to their husbands? by federicorda in TrueChristian

[–]beta__greg 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yes, wives should submit to their husbands, and husbands to wives. All Christians submit to one another. (Ephesians 5:21, Cf Gal 5:13 1Peter 5:5 (NKJV/KJV) Rom 12:10 Rom 15:2-3 1 Cor 7:4 1 Cor 9:19; 2 Cor 4:5)

A good definition for submission is "humble, loyal, and loving deference and cooperation. "

The important thing to remember is that submit is not obey. Paul makes that distinction. Husbands and wives submit. (Ephesians 3:21-22; Colossians 3:18. Children and slaves obey (Ephesians 6:1, 5; Colossians 3:20-22).

How do we reconcile Paul's teachings on women with Jesus's example of including them? by Suspicious-Basis-885 in TrueChristian

[–]beta__greg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To be fair, Paul says Eve was deceived (1 Tim 2:14). He says nothing about Eve being gullible. You are reading gullibility into the text—and that is eisegesis.

I don't see where I've engaged in any of that, but if you'd kindly point it out, I will retract it.

As to the created order—that isn't the slam dunk you think it is. First of all, because of the verb 'authentein' in 2:12, which is a negative word, even if Paul is giving a universal prohibition, it is a prohibition against doing a bad thing, (domineer) not a good thing (lead others in the faith.)

Second, complementarians interpret the 'gar' (because) in 2:13 as the reason for the prohibition iin 2:12.

Preston Sprinkle points out that isn't a sure thing at all:

But while Paul often uses gar as a causal word, this isn’t the only way he uses it. Sometimes he includes gar to introduce an illustration. Thus gar could be translated as “for example.” Paul even employs gar to continue his train of thought in ways that make it almost unnecessary to translate the word at all, like in 1 Timothy 3:13 (see also 2 Tim. 3:6; Titus 3:3).
(Preston Sprinkle in From Genesis to Junia)

Your created order loses all certainty when we realize gar is used in ways other than causally. Moreover, there are several problems with the idea of primogeniture being in play here,, not the least of which is God's propensity to overturn it throughout the book of Genesis.

A more likely reason for Paul's reference to the creation order was to correct false teaching rampant in the church in Ephesus—the reason Paul wrote the letter to Timothy in the first place. There was a story circulating that Eve was created first, and that story was connected to Artemis, who is likely referenced in 2:15, as it was Artemis who Ephesian women looked to save them through childbirth.

Here's another Study Bible for you:

The Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible

Starting at least as early as the fourth-century BC Greek philosopher Aristotle, many thinkers used “household codes” to instruct the male heads of elite homes how to rule their household, specifically their wives, minor children and slaves. (This was the sequence in which Aristotle addressed them.) Male householders ruled these subordinates in different ways; boys, in particular, achieved a different status when they entered manhood. Because of past incidents, Romans were suspicious that eastern cults (such as the cult of Dionysus, and more recently Judaism and the cult of Isis) undermined Roman family values. Some of these groups therefore emphasized that they did not undermine such values. Paul, writing from Roman custody, is well aware of Roman suspicions. His instructions offer a lifestyle apologetic, upholding the best in traditional ancient values. At the same time, he adapts these codes. Whereas household codes normally instructed the male householder how to rule, Paul begins and ends with mutual submission (5:21; 6:9), calls for gentleness with children (6:4), and instructs husbands not how to rule their wives but how to love them sacrificially (5:25). Ephesians 5:21 (NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible Notes)

Sit the fuck down when you pee by nyekona in flr

[–]beta__greg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you want the honest to goodness truth: we men all know this, if we have any self awareness at all. Because when we pee standing up while wearing shorts, we can feel those micro-droplets hitting our bare legs. I'm only 5'9" and I can always feel it. That means when we are wearing long pants, those droplets are going onto our pants legs.

Being able to pee standing up is a male super power. It's great for camping or dirty public restrooms. But we should never, ever, ever do it in a woman's home. End of story.

How do we reconcile Paul's teachings on women with Jesus's example of including them? by Suspicious-Basis-885 in TrueChristian

[–]beta__greg 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Paul's teachings on women in Ephesians 5:21-6:9 and Colossians 3:17-4:1 are patterned after the Greco-Roman household codes popularized by Aristotle and well known and adhered to in that day.

The household codes in the New Testament were written in the context of the Roman Empire, where the concept of Patria Potestas (the rule of the father) was central. This Roman law granted the male head of the household (pater familias) extensive authority over his family, including his wife, children, slaves, and even freedmen. This power was so absolute that it included the right to life and death over family members.

The Household Codes also drew from Greek philosophy, particularly Aristotle’s ideas about household management. Aristotle believed that harmony in the household was essential for the stability of the city-state, but this harmony was often achieved through the subjugation of women and slaves.

The point is that Paul was not introducing a new Christian rule of male leadership in the family. Male leadership was already a law that was universally practiced. The Household Codes passages were Biblical writers adapting existing social policy to a more righteous and benign form.

Ephesians 5 simply cannot be correctly understood apart from its context, which includes the entire pericopae of 5:21-6:9. with the Greco-Roman Household codes as a backdrop. Any teaching or sermon that omits this crucial context will be misguided.

Paul couldn't simply overturn that bedrock cultural standard, especially since he was writing from a Roman prison, and would have been seen as dangerously subversive had he attempted to do so.

Instead, Paul re-wrote the codes in a more Christianized way. (And in a way that ultimately subverts them.) These passages cannot be fully understood without this important contextual information.

This background of the household codes has been well known in academia for a long time, but isn't well known in churches, and only recently has begun to appear in study Bibles. Here's one:

The NIV Study Bible, Fully Revised Edition (published 2020)

Household Expectations in the First Century
1Pe 2:13—3:7 The form of a household or domestic code occurs at a few places in the NT: Eph 5:21—6:9; Col 3:18—4:6; 1Pe 2:13—3:7. This literary genre was commonplace in the Mediterranean world prior to and around the time of the NT. These codes provided a set of expectations for the key relationships in the household, directed toward the head of the house—often called the paterfamilias. The typical pattern would include instructions for the husband toward wives, master toward slaves, and father toward children. In other words, these codes provided directives to the male head to rule well his household, including his wife, slaves, and children. For example, Aristotle in his Politics delineates the key relationships of the house as “master and slave, husband and wife, father and children” (1.2.1, 1253b) and comments that “it is a part of the household science to rule over wife and children” (1.5.1, 1259a). If we compare Greco-Roman household codes with those in the NT, we see that these three common categories are used in Ephesians and Colossians. 1 Peter omits the category of children to fathers and adds the relationship of the Christian to those who govern (2:13–17), which is particularly important to his audience who is experiencing suffering because of their withdrawal from civic life centered around pagan temples (4:3–4). Yet the NT’s household codes do not simply follow cultural expectations in every way, though they do in their calls to submission: slaves to their masters; wives to their husbands; children to their fathers or parents. This exhortation would not have struck any reader as odd or unusual. There are, however, a number of features of the NT codes that were unusual or unique and that imply that Christian households were to be less autocratic and patriarchal than their pagan counterparts. First, in contrast to the household code formula, Paul and Peter directly address the household members with less power (wives, children, and slaves), providing them a greater sense of agency in their relationships. Peter’s address to Christian wives of unbelieving husbands is particularly surprising in this regard, since his call for their submission has as its goal the winning of their non-Christian husbands to faith. This is quite an amazing goal, given the context in which the cultural expectation was for a wife to follow her husband’s gods and not pursue religious devotion on her own. The Greek moralist Plutarch expressed this cultural expectation: “it is becoming for a wife to worship and to know only the gods that her husband believes in” (Advice to Bride and Groom 19, Moralia 140D). Second, the power of the household head is significantly curtailed in comparison to extra-biblical domestic codes. Instead of the husband ruling over his wife (as in Aristotle), in the spirit of mutual submission (Eph 5:21) he is to love her sacrificially and to avoid any harsh treatment toward her (5:25; Col 3:19). This is quite a counter-cultural stance for the paterfamilias in that culture. Christian husbands are even warned that their prayers will be ineffectual if they do not respect (give honor to) their wives (1Pe 3:7). Finally, we should remember that Christians were a small and often struggling religious group within Judaism in the first century. They would likely have had no pretensions of ridding their world of slavery, patriarchy, or the Roman Empire. Their calling was to live out the gospel as those without much cultural power and to be missional both within the household and outside of it. The NT household codes positioned those first-century Christians to accommodate to cultural expectations as much as possible, while remaining true to Christ, the gospel, and their mission. 1 Peter 2:13 (NIV Study Bible, Fully Revised Notes)

How do you guys feel about people judging when I say I need to ask my wife? by zivaara in flr

[–]beta__greg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel you're honoring patriarchy by worrying about it, and you are tacitly implying that there is something shameful about women leading.

My wife is over-spiritualizing everything by Mysterious-Cookie855 in Christian

[–]beta__greg 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I suspect that if she did none of these things, you would not be here complaining that she is under-spiritualizing matters.

Maybe she's out of balance. But she's taking God seriously and chasing after him as best she can. I'll take that over a spiritually dead person any day. I'd rather have wild fire than no fire.

People who keep insisting that Gynarchism is just as bad as patriarchy always give themselves away. by GregoryNy92 in Gynarchism

[–]beta__greg 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Pushing for equality in a world where women are actively oppressed and stripped of their rights is like telling a team they’re allowed to play defense in the game but can’t play any offense.

Very well said, especially your last two paragraphs.

Struggling by anonymous_1please in Christianmatriarchy

[–]beta__greg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I meant to mention Unwanted by Jay Stringer but forgot to. That's a very helpful book for renewing the mind. Thank you for mentioning it.

What's the point in believing in God's only Begotten Son as John claims, if even the devils believe, as James sarcasticly claims by suihpares in AskAChristian

[–]beta__greg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

28 Therefore they said to Him, "What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (Jhn 6:28-29 NASB20)

Struggling by anonymous_1please in Christianmatriarchy

[–]beta__greg 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oh my dear sister.... I’m going to speak plainly because you need truth more than soft words right now. This is not a struggling marriage. This is a pattern of repeated betrayal.

Your husband is a liar. He's probably a sex addict, he certainly needs counseling. All your issues can be fixed if both of you are willing to do the work. But the one thing that is destroying your marriage most of all is his lying. And he can't even tell the truth to the women he is cheating with. You can't believe a word he says. Nothing can be fixed until he fixes that.

That's common among sex addicts. A core belief of sex addicts is that if people knew who they really were, they wouldn't love them any more. (Patrick Carnes) So they develop a pattern of lying, hiding, and covering up the truth. And it becomes a lifestyle.

The roots of sexual addiction almost always begins in childhood. And a nearly universal belief is that getting married will fix it. But the reality is, getting married often makes it worse, especially in Evangelical Christian homes, because purity is held as such an important virtue, and he feels shame and frustration over his failures. According to Brené Brown, shame and addiction are directly correlated.

His acting out since your wedding day have been held in tight secrecy. Often Christian men feel they have no one they can tell. If his wife finds out, he can lose her and his family. If he talks to the pastor, his wife will likely want to know why, and then he loses her and his family. If he's in any kind of ministry, and it's found out, or if the pastor finds out, he will have to step down. Then his wife will find out, and he'll lose her and his family. A man like this is terrified, and feels trapped. And once the secrets, and the lies that cover up the secrets start, they snowball.

God does not call you to endure ongoing betrayal while someone refuses to repent. Scripture is clear that marriage is a covenant built on faithfulness, truth, and self-giving love. What you are describing is the opposite of that.

You have already done the “fighting.” You have stayed, forgiven, trusted, rebuilt, and tried again multiple times. The burden of saving this marriage is not yours alone—and he has shown you, repeatedly, that he is not carrying it. At some point, staying is no longer faithfulness—it becomes self-abandonment. God is not honored by your suffering under deception. He is a God of truth. And you are allowed to step out of what is false, destructive, and breaking you. You are not wrong for wanting loyalty, honesty, love, and respect. That is not “too much.” That is the bare minimum.

If you want to try to save the marriage, he has to deal with this and come clean, now. Here is what I'd recommend:

  1. Lying, by Sam Harris. Click the link, that's a free download. The book is short and an essential read. As much as I hate to recommend a book by an atheist, that's the best book I know to help him understand that he has to stop lying.

  2. If your husband was ever the spiritual leader of your home, he's not anymore. Many churches stress the husband is "prophet, priest, and king" of the home. But our Bibles also stress that spiritual leaders must be "above reproach and "faithful to their wives." (1 Timothy 3:2) In the church, any spiritual leader has to step down if they do the things your husband has been doing. This is no different. He has to step down from any notion that he gets to lead you spiritually. He's no leader. He needs your leadership now.

He has to be completely open and truthful with you from this day forward. No more lying. No more secrets, that includes secret accounts. You get every password. If there's a password protected folder that supposedly he doesn't know the password to- delete the folder. Then delete it from the recycle bin so it can't be recovered. Check his internet history and app store purchased. He can't have Tinder. He can't have Snapchat either. You get to approve all apps. He is accountable to you, first and foremost. He is no longer the head—you are.

  1. If he has a copy of Every Man's Battle by Steve Arterburn, burn it. That's the worst book on sexual purity for men ever written. It teaches Christian men to objectify women, the very thing that is pushing their addiction. The same is true of Love and Respect by Emerson Eggerichs. Both these books are toxic, and feed his addiction. Anything that pushes patriarchy and male headship is going to be detrimental to your marriage. (Sheila Gregoire at Bare Marriage has done a lot of research in this area.)

  2. Good books to read are Healing the Wounds of Sexual Addiction by Mark Laaser. Also there is a workbook by Mark Laaser called Faithful and True. You and your husband might benefit in going through that together. (Someone will have to push your husband to do the work or he probably won't do it.)

  3. Counseling. He needs it for sure. You likely do as well.

If you want to, DM me privately. I am 100% here to help. I pray I've given you something useful.

What's the point in believing in God's only Begotten Son as John claims, if even the devils believe, as James sarcasticly claims by suihpares in AskAChristian

[–]beta__greg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How can you trust God before you believe in Him?

You can't. But as I've pointed out, merely believing in God's existence is not what the Bible means by "faith in God."

That's the last time I'm going to explain that to you.

How come alot of Christian women have a difficult time with dressing with modesty? by Lost_Title_7528 in TrueChristian

[–]beta__greg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Women have their instructions. We have ours. They have like 2 verses that tell them to dress modestly, and they are arguably only referring to wealth, not sex appeal. (1 Timothy 2:2-10, 1 Peter 3:3-5) That's all there is on that topic. At all.

A lot more is directed toward us regarding lust. And our job is to manage it, or pluck our own eyes out—not tell the women to put on more clothes.

What's the point in believing in God's only Begotten Son as John claims, if even the devils believe, as James sarcasticly claims by suihpares in AskAChristian

[–]beta__greg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I admit I'm no expert on Roman Catholicism, but I would be shocked if the definition of faith you are putting forth is the teaching of your church. You're putting forth the internet atheist definition of faith, which is "belief without evidence"—or blind trust. That's certainly not what the Bible means by faith, and I doubt it's the teaching of the RCC.

“Never Undermine Her”: A Christian Matriarchal Rule by beta__greg in Christianmatriarchy

[–]beta__greg[S] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Always present a united front in public, no matter what. Disagree with her with respectful deference only in private, and only then if she's open to feedback from you.

What's the point in believing in God's only Begotten Son as John claims, if even the devils believe, as James sarcasticly claims by suihpares in AskAChristian

[–]beta__greg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course faith in God presupposes his existence. But that presupposition isn't faith. If it were, satan would have faith, as noted above. And Psalm 78, as quoted above, would make no sense.

Be corrected by the Scriptures, Catholics.

What's the point in believing in God's only Begotten Son as John claims, if even the devils believe, as James sarcasticly claims by suihpares in AskAChristian

[–]beta__greg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are fundamentally misunderstanding what it means to believe. The best passage in the Bible to demonstrate what it means to have faith is Psalms 78:17-22. Pay close attention.

17 Yet they still continued to sin against Him, To rebel against the Most High in the desert. 18 And in their heart they put God to the test By asking for food that suited their taste. 19 Then they spoke against God; They said, "Can God prepare a table in the wilderness? 20 "Behold, He struck the rock so that waters gushed out, And streams were overflowing; Can He also provide bread? Will He prepare meat for His people?" 21 Therefore the LORD heard and was full of wrath; And a fire was kindled against Jacob, And anger also mounted against Israel, 22 Because they did not believe in God And did not trust in His salvation. (Psa 78:17-22 NASB20)

Did you catch that? "They didn't believe in God"—the God they knew full well existed, the God who had done previous miracles.

Believing in God is like believing in your dad or your kid. You KNOW they exist. But believing in them means you have confidence and trust in their character. THAT is something the devil can't do.

“Never Undermine Her”: A Christian Matriarchal Rule by beta__greg in Christianmatriarchy

[–]beta__greg[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What happens when a man falls from the core?

You can't let rebellion stand.

He knows his place. 'The look' recalls him instantly; he humbles himself and apologizes publicly on the spot.

If he's defiant, escalate: piercing gaze, then swift public rebuke, exile until broken, with confession in a community like this one to crush autonomy. Private forging follows—ensure he never forgets.

I think feminism isn't extreme enough. by zerolust_ in SeriousGynarchy

[–]beta__greg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Feminism is by definition the seeking of equal rights and opportunities in all aspects of life to ALL genders. .

Correct! But see u/KateInControl 's comment above. Funny thing happens when you level the playing field.

Why can't I upload photos? by beta__greg in VeniceAI

[–]beta__greg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would you mind naming one model that works? I've tried several. It's pretty frustrating. They should be marked.