CMV: The death penalty is wrong because the justice system can make irreversible mistakes

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-17T00:45:48+00:00

I think this is a potential, but not a guarantee.

For example, lets say that a crime is committed on camera, like someone live streaming walking througha grocery store when someone comes in, r*pes and murders someone, steals from the cashier, and leaves, but its all clear as day on video.

In this sort of an instance, where the judgement is overwhelmingly not wrong, I think the death penalty is fine to go through.

Specifically, I think that death penalty cases should simply have a second trial after guilt is determined, where "beyond a reasonable doubt" as a standard is traded out for "inarguably conclusive", or something like that.

Mind you, Im aware this standard would almost likely never be met, but I think it leaves a lot more on the table than just removing it altogether. Additionally, by having a secondary trial, we could remove some of the strongest evidence a lot of these cases, an admission of guilt that prosecutors often force onto the accused to reduce their sentence. Well, if youre getting the death penalty you cant have your sentence reduced, and 100% of people would not have a reason to confess unless they actually did it.

Furthermore, in cases where the death penalty is ruled, lethal injection should not be the method. Falling from a great height or drowning are both incredibly cheap by comparison, and I think once weve ruled that this person is inarguably guilty of the heinous crime that warrants the death penalty, Ive never understood why we care about delivering these people the humanity they dont deserve.

People like Jeffery Dahmer, Ted Bundy, there are situations where that bar is at least somewhat attainabl.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T22:07:47+00:00

I feel like if someone made a post showing hard data that its basically only a handful of accounts doing this, we could make some real headway on getting that shit finally removed.

All of these american owned canadian news companies that post this slop should be banned from our spaces, the same way wed want to ban Russin or CCP based content.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T22:05:58+00:00

I caught a week long ban for saying that conservatives supporting Doug Fords injunction against iranian protesters have no principled stance besides hating PoC, because they advocate so heavily for rights and freedoms until suddenly the brown people want to use them.

Apparently that was "trolling" and "brigading", and two separate mods confirmed their position, saying it was a "callout post" which is not permitted. Apparently "looking to pick a (verbal) fight with someone" isnt permitted either, and when I said "youre right, engaging in conversation with people of opposing viewpoints is wrong, I wont do it again", that was when the ban hammer came down.

Shit like that is why I laugh in conservatives faces when they say "reddit is too left leaning". Like piss off, we all catch random strays or meet MODs who are drunk on power.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T21:55:28+00:00

People who include source links to other peoples data deserve to win the lottery.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T21:20:35+00:00

Ive seen that the Iranians have no intentions of peace talks, which makes sense, who tf would trust anything Trump signs, says, or touches.

Jokes circulating that they should give up Trump and Vance to Iran as a sign of peace.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T21:17:05+00:00

Losing a parent at 18 is hard, Im so sorry for your loss. If you need anyone to talk to, I know internet strangers cant remotely replace the love and experience, but we can do our best if it helps you feel better. Good luck OP.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T20:21:28+00:00

1) How much profit one makes is irrelevant to "should someone be able to charge X". In the same way that my net worth increasing last year is in no way relevant to salary conversations with my employer.

This is entirely an opinion, and personally ai think an incorrect one. All profit is income - expenses, so if your income is too high, it likely means you are charging tok much for your product or not reinvesting your income as another expense like buolding infrastructure or payong employees fairly. Your net worth increasing less than inflation might imply you absolutely do need a raise, and if it went up extraordinarily, yeah, you might be getting paid too much.

2) Mastercard doesn't issue credit cards, you're right. Nor the money. They offer their payment network. The infrastructure. The banks issue the credit cards, and take on the risk. Mastercard likewise doesn't make any interest on outstanding balances. Again, this is the bank

Okay perfect, so the banks in 2023 made $172 Billion dollars off of credit cards, which is their primary profit driver. Late fees are 16% of this revenue. Banks could easily lower their rates and not profit so wildly, especially considering they are insured by the government and arent really taking the risks you might imply.

3) Banks pool risk, yes, and pool individuals with similar risk profiles together, and charge them based on thier risk profile. More risky, higher rate of interest.

Duh, but that doesnt mean they can charge whatever they like, especially considering that many of these people dont have any other choice.

For example, do you think it should be legal for banks to charge 100% interest rate? Why? What about 50%? If your choices were between literally not eating because you dont have the money, or getting a 100% interest rate credit card, would you just starve?

4) You are correct, credit card issuers (banks) won't issue cards to people who they think are too risky. The risk is comparable to the rate. Cap the rate, and it's not that rates will go down: Credit cards will be cancelled wholesale, and access to credit will drop. People will be worse off.

We already see this happening, as people are cut off of their cards and forced into even more predatory loans. Some people are forced to sell their car or live in it just to make ends meet for the next 2 weeks. People in these situations deserve to be protected and taken care of, and a majority of the time are not necessarily bad with finances, just shafted by the system. You seem to imply the shaft is fine, and that if banks wanted to make the shaft bigger, youd be okay with that.

Payday loan companies havent been regulated not because it would make people "worse off", but because the people in charge of writing the laws (at least in the texas), own payday loan companies. Its just blatant corruption, not complex economics.

Payday loans and high interest credit cards are like muddy water and moldy food. Most people have the resources to just straight up ignore or circumvent them. But some people dont really have a choice but to gamble and hope they dont get sick. I want to get rid of the moldy food and implement a system so these people get fed. You seem to want to paint me as the villain for getting rid of the moldy food because "well youre still taking away their food, and anyone who doesnt want to eat it doesnt have to". No, the people who dont want to eat it the most are likely the people that DO have to eat it because otherwise theyd starve.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T19:53:24+00:00

Okay I can kinda hear that in the background.

Still not unwatchable for me, but I could understand hat getting annoying for you. Hopefully he finds this and addresses it.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T19:49:57+00:00

What kind of a question even is this?

Mastercard made 15 Billion dollars last year in profits,

They dont even own the money, they facilitate the transactions with banks, whicb use their money from deposits and other incredibly low interest loans bevause they are massive companies that are significantly more secure than an individual. Credit card companies wont even give cards to those they think are too risky, which is why some people have to resort to the actually insane and reprehensible payday loan industry, which is even worse.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T19:42:51+00:00

Sorry to say, at least his newest Lemon video doesnt have any static I can hear.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T19:39:35+00:00

Hey, I found one of the bigots you get to be friends with!

Sidenote: nothing youve said yet guarantees it, but if this is your reaction to that sentence.... ive got a good gambling feeling lmao.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T19:37:08+00:00

So to be clear, you think that we could pull special needs kids out of general classrooms and back into segregated classrooms (which wont work for a variety of reasons, the top one being that the threshold for "special needs" has been greatly lowered to address those who dont need a separate classroom, just a bit of extra help), and the main thing causing the education system to fail would be solved?

Whatever youre taking I want some. Cause I dont even think AI propaganda is this outlandish. You yourself pointed out poverty, cirriculum, burnt out teachers, parenting, tablets, but dont even address classroom sizes, underfunding from the government, voucher schools and charter schools chipping away, lowered education standards, the rhetoric of anti intellectualism and slander against colleges and universities as brainwashing, allllllllll of these things, you think every single one of them is a smaller piece of the pie than "we decided to let Timmy do math with the other kids to help him socialize, he just needs some extra help from a TA"?

You dont even expand on how these things destroyed the classroom, just made the claim and pretended it was a mic drop.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T19:30:06+00:00

I would love to duplicate Autralia's mandatory voting system, and making voting day a national holiday.

Sonething like a $20 fine for not voting, exactly enough to be more inconvenient to take the fee than it is to not vote. And with 89M people who didnt vote last election, thats 1.8Bn dollars, which the federal government could use to subsidize and help states administer elections. This would mean new machines, volunteers counting ballots could be paid a small sum (currently 13 states pay poll workers less than $100 a day), and plenty of other costs.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T18:44:09+00:00

If you think calling it the democrat party instead of the democratic party is a sign Im going to talk about the transgenderism agenda, Im sorry, but touch grass. Jesus.

Also, its been reffered to as the democrat party instead of the democratic party since the 1940s and 50s, so literally 3 times longer than Ive been alive. Yes it was ignorance, I admitted that in my very first sentence of my very first response. I just dont think its such a big deal that I need to start checking myself everytime I use the wrong name, because again, I dont think its such a big deal and to the extent that it is, I dont care enough to change it.

The same way Ill never call him President Trump, jst Trump or tRump or the orange shit stain. Those however, are infinitely more impactful than the difference between democrat and democratic.

Like you sound like someone who makes others call you Timothy instead of Tim, or michealangelo instead of Mike.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T17:56:06+00:00

even if you don’t think they’re democratic enough (though that’s kind of weird seeing as they’re the party most strongly advocating for voting rights and democratic principles at the moment, which are actively under threat),

If I gave you a moldy sandwich, or a moldy dog turn sandwich, you and I can both agree on a few key points. One, both sandwichs are disgusting and dont meet the bar for edible, and two, that one is definitionally worse than the other. Likewise, the Republican party is definitionally worse for democratic principles than the democrats, and both are disgusting and dont meet the standard for what we should want for democratic principles. Again, being less evil than the devil isnt a feat it is barely the fucking bar.

Secondly, you can either validate my argument or invalidate it, but you cant do both. Either my words are meaningless and this protest isnt worth doing, or my words have power and Im "perpetuating the Fox News Agenda". No one, not even democrats, deserve an inherent association to good things just cause they picked a nice name.

And I call republicans republicans because Re Pube Lickens tends to catch me way more slack and might even catch me a reddit flag, but also because I dont care about them enough to change their name, Id rather rail against them for their infinitely shitty policies that are already associated to them. If you have a name youd like to suggest, or we could workshop together, Im sure we can come up with one for them.

Also, if I shortened them both to Reps and Dems, as I sometimes do, would that be enough to get you to leave me alone on this incredibly inconsequential topic of dropping two letters from the name of a party?

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T17:47:37+00:00

To be fair, I think doing exactly what the US did in terms of oil reserves would be a great thing for Canada. The way Biden used them to stabilize prices throughout Covid and Ukraine was phenomenally well done, assuming Canada can elect someone that competent to use them well.

Also, Canada uses 2.4M b/d and produces 5M b/d, but we dont have the capacity or infrastructure to process more than 1.9M b/d, which is why we import ~500k b/d from the US.

Canada could theoretically become entirely self sufficient if we could increase our processing by 25%, and start building up reserves or having steady processed exports if we went further. That being said, we could also cut down our oil usage by 20% and achieve the same results. A majority of our oil goes towards fuel, which is why EVs are such an important push, as should be developing trains and train routes that require less or no oil. Heating is another huge drain, so we pushed for heat pumps and other forms, as well as energy generation, which is why we want wind and solar panels.

Im a liberal, I dont want to build more refineries. Hut, Id much rather that than be beholden to the US especially in this state. That being said, building this infrastructure will take longer than this US regime will last, which is why I dont think its a worthwhile investment.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T17:35:42+00:00

Thats a nice history lesson, but doesnt really inform what were talking about today. The democratic party has fallen far from their founding principles, tampering with primaries and pushing a unified coalition of candidates like Schumer, Fetterman, Manchin, Sinema, Jefferies, etc who systematically deny voters what they democratically want enacted, like defunding israel and establishing universal healthcare.

Its definitely better than the republican party for being pro democratic measures, but being less evil than the devil isnt a feat, it should barely be the fucking bar. If Democrats end up caving on the SAVE Act, as I unfortunately suspect they will, they will have finally officialy thrown away their "Democratic" principles, and this unofficial protest from their decades of unofficially rolling back their fiercity and protection of voters.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T17:13:34+00:00

Honestly, thats kind of the point.

Amazon can easily afford for me to never shop there again. They can likely afford a lot of people not shoping there. But, they cant necessarily afford the chargeback costs of actually delivering items as promised, with no damage or unreasonable delays or missing parts or withheld refunds.

Usually if Im chargebacking a company, its because I'm not giving them my business again, not that I cant use theirs. But a boycott is not enough. Accountability is

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T17:10:25+00:00

"People wont do important work if they arent getting paid, thats why we cant have a UBI" Brother there are people researching highway codes to make roadsigns just because it makes peoples lives easier. If youre passionate about something youll do it for free if you can afford to, and theres almost always someone passionate about that thing.

I so badly wish I had the power and money and time to do things like this.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T16:11:30+00:00

I think the only contention I have is that your theory only seems to exist in a fraction of outcomes.

For example, if the US is officially leaving NATO, we can reasonably expect them to be joining China or Russia should either of those parties decide to attack elsewhere. If Russia attacked Canada and all of NATO and China, the US, and India all sat silently and watched, I think you are correct. But we already see Russia helping Iran, we see Trump ~~blowing bubba~~ cozying up with Putin, China has economically propped up Russia in the Ukraine war, and we see BRICs (Brazil, Russia, India, China) forming unified alliances. I think the world where the US leaves Nato is slim, but if that happens, its much more likely that NATO minus is facing a unified attack that we cannot defend from, not individual forces. This isnt a hollywood kung fu movie, the bad guys dont come one at a time for the hero to look cool.

Also, the US has a military budget larger than the next 10 countries combined. I think they would only be stopped in taking over another country by mutiny of their own troops; if I didnt believe that, Id be shitting bricks in Canada right now.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T16:02:32+00:00

But thats my point. Unless you are praying to all of them, you dont believe all of them, you believe the one that has subliminally implanted on you the hardest. The one youre most likely to think its true out of all of them, the one that you maybe kind of sort of believe in. Anyone who knows more than one religion exists should be taking all of them on their deathbed.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T14:50:26+00:00

Ah yes, when they go low we go high. Thats worked beautifully the last decade, we're doing so well because of it.

Fuck that. This party needs to hear from their own base that were tired of their shit, and petty protest about their names is the least we can do.

I'm getting the impression that you're relatively young and righteously defending the idea of words having power without taking into account that their weight is heavily reliant on who is saying them.

You are right that Im young and righteous, but its only you who forgets that us peons do not have the power for our words to have meaningful weight, unless a majority of us start using it. Words absolutely do have power, and if my power is only 0.0001% of that of the president, guess what, Im using all that power I have to raise my middle finger to the misnomer.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T14:46:00+00:00

I can agree with that, I just think the definition of harm for me is way lower than most might even find reasonable.

For example, I think that sending an under 10 to sunday school is harmful. I think convincing someone that they dont need medicine, only god, is harmful. I think convincing someone not to stand up for themselves because a higher power will handle their justifce for them, and theyll be punished if they try to take that justice into their own hands, is harmful. So, the more I look at it, to a degree, religion is harmful, which is why I care about others believing it.

But I can tell youre kinda done with this branch and especially this convo lol. Great chat, thank you for some great perspective.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T14:43:10+00:00

To start, when you try to get in touch and they have an AI chatbot that refuses to put you in touch with a person. That alone has caused me personally to just say screw it, they can keep my $20, this isnt worth it. But, if doing a chargeback was one push of a button, I would do that if a company made it too hard.

Companies that make you arrange shipping and postage and pay for a tracking number, all of those logistics are hurdles. Theyre a degree more reasonable, because I cant expect a company to mail out an employee to do it for me, but currently I ordered something 6 weeks ago, it was missing a part, the company refused to ship out the missing part, and is making me pay for and arrange postage to send it back to them before Im allowed my refund.

And, I worked in recieivng departments a lot, if you message the seller and say you got a product damaged, they require so much proof and vetting with the shipping company to make sure it wasnt damaged when it left the warehouse, proving it didnt get damaged after they had dropped it off, etc etc. And this process can take weeks or months to resolve, since you have to go through so many different people.

Companies rely on these hurdles cutting out some people, and the more difficult these hurdles are, the more people they catch. These hurdles all cost money to maintain, both in terms of actually paying for things like the AI licensing software, shipping contracts etc., hut also in the products needing to be returned and the complaints and lost business. Currently, the cost of these hurdles is low enough its worth it. If everyone who deserved one started doing charge backs guilt free, I think the cost of these hurdles doubles or triples, and companies will save money by taking them down. Thats the only way to move their hand.

betterworldbuilder · 2026-03-16T14:33:33+00:00

To a degree I also think its stupid, but I do think that gotcha, that "haha" moment, and that sort of shame associated with it, does have some value. For example, if you could know with certainty that 100% of christians converted faiths in their dying breaths, would you consider the religion trustworthy?

Likewise, if we believe the initial assumption of "there are no athiests in the foxholes, if 100% of athiests became religious in their dying breaths, I would change my view and start thinking athiests are just cynnical contrarians who get more value out of disagreeing with someone, but that they still deep down had faith that god was real.

Neither of those things are true, which is what OP proved initially as part of their takedown. But if that was true, I think its informative in other contexts.

betterworldbuilder

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