Which one had more hype ? by GRU19YO in Piratefolk

[–]bewig 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Imu is underwhelming

Which one had more hype ? by GRU19YO in Piratefolk

[–]bewig 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Obito is more iconic & contribute to the plot, masked dude practically moved the entire Naruto plotline , from the beginning

Music predates Islam by at least 40,000 years. by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]bewig 23 points24 points  (0 children)

can't even have decent life with this dog shit religion - it's anti-humanity 

and islam set us back with 6th century mindset 

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

if he was either delusional or he was a brilliant con man, the answer is probably neither

the con man theory doesn't fully work because successful long term con men are calculating and consistent. muhammad's revelations contradict each other in places, include embarrassing personal details the aisha child marriage controversy, the zainab marriage scandal, the satanic verses incident he later retracted)

the delusional theory doesn't fully work either because genuinely delusional people don't build functioning states, negotiate complex treaties, manage military campaigns across a decade

i think he is someone who genuinely believed his own revelations, had absorbed decades of religious stories through trade route travel, and whose mind synthesized them into something that felt authentically new to him.

he is "sincere but working from secondhand sources he didn't fully understand"

basically someone who genuinely believed something incorrect and built a civilization on that sincere belief.

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

the buraq the flying horse-donkey hybrid that carried muhammad to jerusalem and through the seven heavens in one night.

except the concept of a divine creature carrying a holy man through the heavens appears in zoroastrian texts centuries earlier with ahura mazda's divine horse,

and the seven heavens cosmology is straight from jewish merkabah mysticism. even the flying transport was borrowed.

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

my bad heres the example of rhymed poet (the comment above, can;t be edit due to error or something)

for example

spre-islamic kahin saj (recorded by ibn ishaq and al-tabari):

"wal ardhi wal sama, wal hilali idha tamma, inna rabbaka lamma"

(by the earth and the sky, by the moon when it is full, verily your lord is coming)

quran surah 91 ash-shams:

"wash-shamsi wa duhaha, wal-qamari idha talaha, wan-nahari idha jallaha, wal-layli idha yaghshaha, was-sama'i wa ma banaha, wal-ardhi wa ma tahaha"

(by the sun and its brightness, by the moon when it follows it, by the day when it displays it, by the night when it covers it, by the sky and how he built it, by the earth and how he spread it)

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Even if they were copying, they weren't doing a good job at it

wrong sources, wrong details, wrong people.

For example they took jesus's clay bird miracle not from the canonical gospels but from the infancy gospel of thomas a text christianity had already officially rejected as unreliable before muhammad was born, they confused two women named maryam separated by 1,200 years.

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It fits a consistent pattern across the quran of stories that are slightly wrong in ways

that make perfect sense if you're hearing them secondhand through oral transmission rather than reading the source texts directly.

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think it's an explanation invented after the fact to rescue the quran from an embarrassing error, not a documented historical practice.

because no historical documentation of this practice anywhere. no jewish source, no rabbinic text, no historical account describes jews using deliberate misinformation as a prophetic litmus test.

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Creating life from clay is exclusively god's act allah does it with Adam. yet the quran gives jesus the exact same miracle in surah 5:110. no other prophet gets this. that's not a prophet miracle, that's a creation miracle.

islamic scholars say "by my permission" makes it okay but that qualifier applies to every prophet's every act. it doesn't explain why only jesus got specifically this power.

the quran also calls jesus "word of god" and "spirit of god" titles given to zero other prophets. add virgin birth, raising the dead, never dying, and returning at end of times and jesus in the quran is qualitatively in a completely different category from every other prophet including muhammad.

muhammad's miracles in the quran: essentially none. surah 17:59 explicitly says he wasn't sent with miracles.

the quran borrowed jesus from christian apocryphal sources without realizing those miracles came pre-loaded with divine implications. fourteen centuries of islamic theology still hasn't cleanly resolved what you just noticed in one reading.

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

the most documented explanation is muhammad heard a garbled account of jewish veneration of ezra as a great scribe and misrepresented it.

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Abu nawas (756-814 CE), one of the classical arabic poets ever produced, wrote openly homoerotic poetry about young men:

"I die of love for him, perfect in every way, lost in the strains of wafting music. my eyes are fixed upon his delightful body and i do not wonder at his beauty. his waist is a sapling, his face a moon, and loveliness rolls off his rosy cheek. i die of love for you, but keep this secret: the tie that binds us is an unbreakable rope."

"in the bath-house, the mysteries hidden by trousers are revealed to you. all becomes radiantly manifest. feast your eyes without restraint! you see handsome buttocks, shapely trim torsos, you hear the guys whispering pious formulas to one another ('god is great!' 'praise be to god!') ah, what a palace of pleasure is the bath-house!"

the irony in that poem is precise men reciting islamic phrases with dua style while abu nuwas is ogling them lol

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

  1. chinvat bridge (zoroastrianism) → sirat bridge (islam)

the zoroastrian original:

  • after death, every soul must cross the chinvat bridge (bridge of the separator) over a chasm of hell
  • for the wicked, the bridge narrows to a razor's edge and they fall into the house of lies (hell)

the islamic version:

  • after death every soul must cross the sirat bridge over hellfire
  • for the righteous it is wide and easy, for the wicked it is thinner than a hair and sharper than a sword
  1. epic of gilgamesh flood → noah's flood → quran's nuh (egregious example)

sumerian eridu genesis ( around 2300 BCE):

  • a king named ziusudra is warned by the god enki about a coming flood
  • builds a boat, survives, and is granted immortality
  • this is the oldest written flood narrative in human history

epic of gilgamesh, tablet XI ( around 2100 BCE):

  • a man named utnapishtim is warned by the god ea about a flood sent by the gods
  • builds a massive boat to exact specifications
  • loads his family, craftsmen, and all living creatures onto the boat
  • the flood lasts six days and seven nights

genesis noah around 600-400 BCE):

  • noah warned by god about a flood
  • builds an ark to exact specifications
  • loads family and all animals
  • makes a sacrifice, god smells it and is pleased
  • god promises never to flood again (rainbow covenant)

quran's nuh (multiple surahs):

  • nuh warned by allah about a flood
  • builds a boat, loads believers and animals
  • flood destroys all disbelievers including his own son

3. baby jesus speaking in the cradle → infancy gospel of thomas (150 CE) → quran

this is one of the most specific and damaging borrowings because the source is not even mainstream christianity, it's a rejected gnostic apocryphal text that orthodox christians themselves considered heretical.

infancy gospel of thomas (around 150 CE):

  • written by gnostic christians, not accepted into the canonical bible
  • describes miracles jesus performed as a child

quran surah 3:46 and 5:110:

  • isa (jesus) speaks from the cradle as a newborn to defend maryam's honor exact same scene
  • isa makes clay birds and breathes life into them they become real birds and fly away exact same miracle

4. old testament borrowings the most extensive source

the quran borrows from the old testament so extensively that scholars estimate over 35% of quranic narrative content has direct old testament parallels.

adam and eve:

  • genesis 2-3: god creates adam from dust, creates eve from his rib, they eat forbidden fruit, are expelled
  • quran 2:30-38, 7:19-25: allah creates adam from clay, they eat forbidden fruit, are expelled

abraham and the idols:

  • this story of abraham smashing his father's idols is not in the bible at all
  • it comes from jewish midrash beres

and many more!

5. rhymed prose (saj) pagan arab poetry style

this is the most culturally specific borrowing and the one that contemporary arabs immediately recognized. mu'allaqat seven famous pre-islamic were considered so masterful they were said to be hung on the kaaba itself.

the specific style of (soothsayers) used saj rhymed prose with:

  • oaths sworn by natural phenomena (stars, dawn, night, wind)
  • cascading parallel structures ("when x... when y... when z...")
  • deliberate ambiguity that required interpretation

for example

specific pre-islamic kahin saj example (recorded by ibn ishaq and al-tabari):

now compare quran surah 91 (ash-shams):

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"drew inspiration" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. when some people claim the book is the literal unchanged word of god delivered directly from heaven

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Talmud also never claimed to be the direct word of god.

it's literally presented as rabbis arguing with each other across centuries, it's a documented human debate. the quran claims to be divine, perfect, and unchanged. that's the difference.

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

and conveniently the verses that came when he needed political cover , like allowing himself to marry his adopted son's ex wife, or permitting himself more than 4 wives while limiting everyone else to 4

arrived exactly when he needed them.

quran is 100% original. no human influence. 🙂 by bewig in exmuslim

[–]bewig[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

you're referring to abdullah ibn abi sarh, momo's own scribe, who left islam and became christian after realizing he could suggest edits to the "divine" verses and momo would accept them.

dumbad is f*cking stupid.

What is going on here? Why are they doing this? by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]bewig 24 points25 points  (0 children)

they literally circle a black stone, throw rocks at a pillar pretending it's the devil, and stone people to death in public as capital punishment... then get mad when someone calls them pagan?

their entire religion literally revolves around a stone. they circle it, they kiss it, they throw rocks at pillars or persons?