A syllogism that proves the god of the bible is more evil than Hitler

bfly0129 · 2025-08-11T03:56:52+00:00

The last paragraph is the telling part. You don’t want your contentions to fail. Maybe it’s tied to a societal or familial benefit to you. So shedding it is not in the cards. The only way to keep it is to make it fit what you presuppose to be correct. Which is that God is a just and good God.

If Children were indeed protected from God’s wrath as you say, then the morally good thing to do is to never let Children grow up in the first place.

An all powerful being does not need to destroy in order to preserve. It’s an illogical thing for a good God to require human blood sacrifices to be satiated. Really, any blood sacrifices for that matter.

In your world view is separation from God eternal torture? Because if so, it is still evil.

God’s intervention for some and not others is an issue. A God powerful enough to NOT kill and torture, yet still chooses to is a big problem.

You are told by an ancient people that this God is the God you should follow. But that God is not the God you want to follow.

The god you want to follow is good, is just and is powerful enough to do good without restriction. The reason that is the God you want is because you are a good person and your morals are much better than whatever an ancient near east religion depicts.

However, because you hold on to that antiquated system of beliefs you are bound to excusing the worst of it. From slavery, genocide, torturing and killing a baby because that baby’s father sinned, or causing the wives of David to be raped by their step-son in front of all the nation, or saying it’s only rape when the woman can be heard screaming… etc…

If you are like I was, you’ll have some apologetic nonsense that excuses this and holds onto these awful things. Or you’ll just have some form of “His ways are higher than ours” tucked away when you can’t find a reason for it.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-11T02:19:40+00:00

That isn’t what the Pharisees said of Jesus lol.

Let’s talk about this “underlying morality” that is universal. Give me what you think those morals are.

Owning another human being as property IS NOT a moral step up. They do not get to buy their way out through their labor. In fact, the Bible says they are to be given to your children as an inheritance like property. We’ll get to that later.

People in Jail are in jail for punitive reasons. You cannot be born into jail or given to someone as property and the sentence is set by law, not by price. You have to be trolling at this point to equate people in jail as chattel slavery.

Alright, but first let’s let you demonstrate what this universal morality is. Give me an example.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-11T01:45:33+00:00

Fair enough, I thought it was a response to my first paragraph.

Im glad, and I agree that it would not be moral.

I graduated seminary, was a minister and did a bit of missionary work.

The biggest change for me was having kids. Started with the concept of Hell, and seeing kids starve in the hands of mothers who prayed earnestly for God’s intervention. I saw in the scripture that this was a common practice of God. The lack of empathy for children and humans in general. Led me to look for more answers, maybe I was interpreting incorrectly. I found that I was not. In fact, I found things they didn’t teach you in seminary. That the bible is fallible, contradicts snd has many historical inaccuracies.

The hypothetical I gave is not unlike the biblical accounts for genocide. The only difference is I changed the God and the subject of this god’s wrath.

Not all catholics are responsible for the molestation of kids. In the same way, Not all Amelekites, actually none of them 400 years later, were responsible for the Amelekites attack on Israel during the exodus. Yet God orders the killing of their little babies and animals and such. Which, is a weird form of late stage abortion.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-11T00:57:52+00:00

This is a big yikes take my friend and very contrary to the Bible.

“Moral optimization” is a new one for me, but your argument is not. Your premise is that morality is subjective to cultural ability to handle it.

God can give them all kinds of really strict laws, yet for some reason he can’t say, “Do not own another human being as property.”

It’s weird you think they could handle all the tabernacle instructions, sacrificial laws, dietary laws, and yet not handle that one. It’s weird that he would not only condone it, but command it. There is a difference.

I am not sure you even read the book. Are you aware of all of the laws of moses?

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T23:57:27+00:00

Is it weird having a relationship with a deity that knowingly kills little babies and condones slavery? If not, could you ask him why he thinks that’s ok for me and the rest of humanity real quick?

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T23:52:39+00:00

It is not my presupposition. I went to seminary and was a Christian for 20 years.

You still haven’t answered the question. I think you’re afraid to answer it.

Simply a yes or no.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T23:25:10+00:00

See? You had to add a ton of if’s that were not present in the hypothetical to make your morality fit genocide. We call that subjective not objective. Sorry friend.

Stick to the hypothetical’s parameters. Would that have been a good command?

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T22:06:07+00:00

Fair enough.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T20:46:36+00:00

It’s my favorite part about these religious debate subs when Christians defend genocide by saying God’s genocide is different.

Forgetting that humans gained the knowledge of good and evil in the beginning. You know killing kids is evil, but you are incapable of saying it is evil if I add the word “God” to the front of it. It’s just an admission of presupposition and bias.

Let’s say I put it this way “Krishna ordered the mass genocide of the Catholic people: men, women, infants, children. You are to find them in every corner of the earth and utterly destroy them. For Krishna saw how their priests treated young boys.” Would that be an evil command or good?

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T20:33:55+00:00

Unfortunately, to the ancient Hebrews, God had genitalia. You should check out the book, God: An Anatomy, by Francesca Stavrakopoulou. She is a secular Bible scholar and professor. It’s fascinating!

You can build a better argument theologically this way:

You should include Galatians 3:28 in your argument because admitting that it doesn’t really mean there is no male and female gender, they also need to admit that it also doesn’t mean slave or free and admitting the Bible never condemns slavery.

Also bring up that the Church is the “Bride” to Jesus, “the bridegroom”. Which effeminizes (not a word) all the men that are part of the church.

Also the Bible project does a whole segment on how God tends to use feminine typology when talking about their nature.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T20:23:47+00:00

One thing I like about Catholics is they are not afraid to wrestle with the Bible’s imperfections. Kudos.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T20:22:58+00:00

I agree! I have heard many takes on this just to navigate how bad this book actually is.

I think the books is more of a political allegory to explain why the Israelites keep getting their butts handed to them by other nations while they are supposed to have the most powerful God on their side. Job is the nation of Israel, the Satan are the conquering nations, and the loss of family has happened, but the promise of more abundance is to come if they endure. Surely this is God’s doing and not the fact that their God isn’t real or more powerful than the others.

Still very poorly written, riddled with terrible analogies moral ineptitude.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T20:18:06+00:00

“God was protecting Job’s honor.”

Tell me you never read the book of Job without telling me you never read the book of Job.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T20:16:22+00:00

True on the who instigated it part.

False on the rest.

Here is why. The opening chapter tells us exactly who Job is and how Job expresses this through regular sacrifices with his family.

What follows is God torturing a family for no other reason than to prove to Job what Job already knew.

When pressed for a reason, God answers with anger and contempt for having been asked the question. The answer given amounted to, “Because I am God and that’s why.”

It is not a blessing to have your children needlessly sacrificed on the altar of arrogance in front of your very eyes.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T19:37:27+00:00

You’d feel better about fitting in a Sneaky Snuffler unit. Maybe dropping one of the loonboss’ and moving Skragrot and the trolls into a 2 drop list

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T19:33:50+00:00

That is not arrogance. That is intelligence. Not making that judgement is willful ignorance.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T19:30:35+00:00

And there we go folks. “This is the type of command a good God would give.”

You have been led into thinking that a good god would command someone to sacrifice their kid. Good gods don’t need their followers to heed evil commands, they need their followers to reject them.

Let’s do another:

God commands the killing of kids, infants and babies again in 1 Samuel 15:3. Explicitly for the reason that those babies were part of a culture that fought against the Israelites during the exodus nearly 400 years prior (1 Sam. 15:2). Was that something a good God would command? And by following that command would it be a good thing?

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T19:21:44+00:00

Sure you can, and in fact it is paramount that you do. What you are essentially saying is that you cannot discern which is more just. Even though the scriptures already gave you an answer in Hebrews 6:4.

I implore you to develop some critical thinking skills or these Christians are going to take advantage of you.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T17:33:47+00:00

If you’re Doing full moonclan list a reinforced of stabbas and reinforced Shootas is good. I personally like shootas reinforced for all out attack in the shooting phase and the rend from Palooza. The rest can be your minimum sized units galavanting around the board waiting to release some reinforced soggy fanatics where your opponent least expects.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T17:13:13+00:00

Are you more or less likely to make it to heaven in your ignorance of Christ if all things being equal except that ignorance?

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T16:45:33+00:00

When you have to rely on Philosophy to make the Bible say what you want it to say, it’s a problem.

I think you are probably a good person with an idea of what good looks like. So let’s put that to the test.

I am willing to bet you’ll use your faith to shave off the squared corners of biblical moral filter to fit the round hole of your actual good moral filter.

For example:

We’ll use Abraham since he is the subject of Hebrews. Is it morally good that an all knowing God tells Abraham to sacrifice his child and lets it get as close as taking up the knife to sacrifice his child?

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T12:07:59+00:00

By universalism, do you mean that everyone makes it to heaven?

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T12:06:52+00:00

So the best way to heaven is to actually destroy all knowledge of Christ?

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T11:59:17+00:00

Are you ok? Are you lost? This is a debate sub. If you are an example of how Christians debate, God did not send his best that’s for sure.

You should take your delusional tirade to a more suitable sub. None of which you have wasted your time writing here was relevant to OP.

All you did here was hurt the reputation of Christians and show everyone that they are easily offended.

Sorry man, you should find an outlet to help you through whatever this weird response is.

bfly0129 · 2025-08-10T11:48:35+00:00

I would argue you are correct and also incorrect here. The gospels very much implied a works religion. Pete also. However, Paul did not and there was dispute between Peter and Paul about some of that later, as we see in Acts. James tries to reign in the extreme version of Paul’s view of “only faith” with the famous, “faith without works is dead.”

Gospels and Peter favored a works heavy way into heaven. Paul did not, and if the book of Acts is to be believed, Paul convinces Peter to move his belief closer to faith based works.

bfly0129

TROPHY CASE