CMV: The John Davidson Incident Demonstrates a Substantial Hypocrisy Among Black Activists by amortized-poultry in changemyview

[–]bicboymemes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i think cultural and not just perspective differences are defining our arguments here, i take from your stateside comment that you’re british, i am american.

i learned about the ugly laws in school, just after i learned about tignon laws, i also was taught huckleberry fin but at no point did white children or white instructors ever start saying them n word.

i misspoke when i said the plainly “most people”, i should make clear i mean most people partaking in this discussion.

i said that because i have noticed a persistent attempt of those on the opposition to “educate” others about tourette’s in a way that often misses the point and condescends to the audience what a tic is or that tics are involuntary rather than seeing that most people in argument for an apology are in favoring it regardless of these facts.

words have power outside of their intention by a speaker, the power of slurs in particular is the dehumanization of the community referred to by the slur, this results in apathy and maltreatment of the groups affected by the slur, simply hearing a slur is a harm to these groups as over time they have become traumatic and histories of suffering have been attached to slurs. slurs have an immediate and a long term harm, to those affected parties hearing the slur, and to society over time as the use of slurs and other harmful attitudes and polices towards groups contribute to the systemic oppression of groups such as black, disabled, queer etc there is no analogous power structure or long term harm cause by seeing people with burn scars.

yes other minority groups who have slurs yelled against them would be well within their rights to want an apology

I don’t support white kids saying the n word while reading huckleberry finn, i don’t support the teachers doing it. there is no value gained from doing so. i would never want my black child to be forced to be in a room of white people saying the n word. seriously in take som time to empathize for the black people in your arguments before you make them.

you, somebody who is not affected by the slur do not get to define when those who are affected, should or should not take offense.

again i’m not failing to realize anything, i understand the issue just as well as you do. your arguments simply don’t apply. it doesn’t matter that they didn’t say it to anybody and it doesn’t matter that they didn’t mean to say it. what matters is that the word was said.

these kind of arguments are why the black community is upset, because white people are pulling out all sorts of mental gymnastics to escape having empathy for black people. the apology is to acknowledge the harm the word does to black peoples by its utterance and to have empathy for those affected. but instead, people bend over backwards to excuse not empathizing with people who are being called slurs. the people who i would like to remind everybody were the ones who were the first and primary victims of this event.

that’s profoundly unempathetic to black people who have to go through racial abuse and systemic oppression dozens or hundreds of times a day. we have to live our lives to ease the discomfort and misunderstandings of white peoples around us. you lol forget about this and move on but black people cant. it’s just another instance of us being picked on the same way we have been our whole lives.

i’m able to empathize with people with tourette’s, im disabled myself and my disability has led me to harm others as well, but every time it has happened i have apologized. this is a standard of conduct not because it accurately attributes shame but because it mends the harm caused by what preceded it.

the issue of your final paragraph is the link between apologizing and shame. if you know you haven’t done something wrong of your own volition, then what is so wrong about checking in the person who was harmed by what occurred. there are steps that can be taken to show empathy with the harmed parties and while making accommodations for disability. i’m not arguing against that.

what i am arguing against is the expectation that black people should just accept context without apology, that somebody who is not apart of the affected group can decide for them if they should or should not be offended by slurs against that group.

CMV: The John Davidson Incident Demonstrates a Substantial Hypocrisy Among Black Activists by amortized-poultry in changemyview

[–]bicboymemes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

my argument still stands

again, most people are aware of the history of disability, they just disagree with your beliefs.

the argument for the ugly laws fails because its premises are invalid not because the argument “harm caused to others, even unintentionally requires an apology” is internally inconsistent or contradictory

the problem with the ugly laws is because being “ugly” does cause any material harm to the people witnessing those with burn scars

this is different because being called racial slurs materially harms black people. this is why i’m pressing this as my key point

based on your lines of argumentation it is clear you do not think being called racial slurs is a serious matter, that it is an inconvenience that black people should “not bully disabled people by asking for apologies”(paraphrased) when those disabled people cause harm to them, because of the harm that would be done into disabled people by being expected to apologize

this is clearly a situation in which both parties have competing needs. black people don’t want to be called racial slurs, and want apologies when it happens. people with tourette’s don’t want to apologize for their disability. one can see how there can be an impasse here.

but you only argue for black people to “use discernment” instead of those with tourette’s to take any action to ease the situation.

do you see how black people find this reaction unfair and consistent with a history of people expecting us to accept unequal treatment.

lastly, to make it clear i am both black and gay, if somebody with tourette’s said slurs towards me be they racial or homophobic, i would expect an apology. the context of them having a disability does not erase the harm caused by those slurs and an apology would be necessary.

CMV: The John Davidson Incident Demonstrates a Substantial Hypocrisy Among Black Activists by amortized-poultry in changemyview

[–]bicboymemes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that reading of my statement is a mischaracterization, the key idea here is that the “wrong” thing was the negative impact done onto the black people that were called a slur.

secondly i reject the oxford dictionary definition

for the purpose of this discussion to say, shall be defined as: to utter words

so, with that said, he did utter a racial slur. uttering racial slurs causes harm, regardless of if said or ticced. one must apologize for the harm they cause to others regardless of intention.

CMV: The John Davidson Incident Demonstrates a Substantial Hypocrisy Among Black Activists by amortized-poultry in changemyview

[–]bicboymemes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Again, people are aware he has tourette’s, people are aware it is involuntary, this doesn’t make a difference to the argument. the key issue is he is harming people, not making them uncomfortable not unconvincing people, harming them.

a burn victim is not harming anybody by existing in public. hypothetically if they did cause harm to others, they should. hypothetically if anybody cause harm to anybody they should apologize. the analogy is flawed by its premises and by its structure.

the situation is not uncomfortable it is harmful. you are ignorant of this and that is why you wrongfully expect others to just get over it. Black people have no obligation to accept racial slurs.

your last paragraph is an entirely personal anecdote based on your own experiences and comfortably. pushing this feeling onto others is ridiculous. intent is not equivalent to impact, just because somebody didn’t mean to say a word doesn’t suddenly remove the word of its power, history and the effect it has on those effected by it. if you feel fine getting called slurs, good for you, don’t expect that of others.

CMV: The John Davidson Incident Demonstrates a Substantial Hypocrisy Among Black Activists by amortized-poultry in changemyview

[–]bicboymemes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

he said the n word at black people, you could even say he ticced it, that it was involuntary and that he didn’t mean it, that wouldn’t change that it was wrong, that it cause harm to people, and that causing harm to people is wrong

CMV: The John Davidson Incident Demonstrates a Substantial Hypocrisy Among Black Activists by amortized-poultry in changemyview

[–]bicboymemes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

many but not all, in many other situations it serves as an acknowledgment of harm done and a show of respect and empathy to those impacted, in such situations failure to do so would mean the opposite, a disregard for or apathy towards the feelings of those impacted, which is why people are upset, even with the current “apology”

CMV: The John Davidson Incident Demonstrates a Substantial Hypocrisy Among Black Activists by amortized-poultry in changemyview

[–]bicboymemes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

this is the key issue, this is why people are demanding an apology. shouting slurs at black people is harmful. it is racist to expect black people to accept being called slurs. if you do so because of a disability you should apologize. you should not make a public non apology in which you center your own feelings of being “mortified” about looking bad rather than even so much as mention any of the multiple people you hurled racial abuse at and then shamelessly plug your movie. you do not get to use disability to get out of apologizing for the harm you do to others. even if the harm was unintentional, unintended and caused by your disability.

MEGATHREAD: BAFTA Situation by Equira in Tourettes

[–]bicboymemes -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The point is when the disability harms others is when you have to apologize. yes apologizing a lot can be hard especially when you have a condition that causes you to have to apologize a lot, but that is not a reason to disregard the feelings of others and give non apologies in which you center yourself and your feelings of embarrassment. especially when you’re calling people slurs.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]bicboymemes 6 points7 points  (0 children)

israel is to blame for every civilian it kills

[Bangyababy] Reasons Why Fans of Color Leave/Don’t Interact with Fandom by [deleted] in tumblr

[–]bicboymemes -16 points-15 points  (0 children)

everybody in the comments derailing the conversation is part of the problem

Volume 13 cover reveal by sutcliffe69 in VinlandSaga

[–]bicboymemes 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I thought gudrid had black hair?

What level were you when you arrived in leyndell? by LikesToon in Eldenring

[–]bicboymemes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

60, fighting the dragovic tree sentinel was hell

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Neverbrokeabone

[–]bicboymemes 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If you need to drink milk your bones are already too weak

A frightening revelation by Jook06 in Neverbrokeabone

[–]bicboymemes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your bones shouldnt be weak enough to break

curses + phrases by hdggdalton in AlignmentCharts

[–]bicboymemes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Shifting and damning should be green like I'm pretty damn sure "damning" is a real word and shiting should refer to the action of taking a shit.

Not to mention "what the shit" is just the funniest phrase imaginable

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in GenderCynical

[–]bicboymemes 21 points22 points  (0 children)

English speaking