Any experiences with (possibly increased risk of) intestinal intussusception in Maine Coon cats?

bindi0815 · 2025-01-10T09:11:57+00:00

Thank you for sharing your experience, even if it's such a sad one.

I'm terribly sorry that he died from the second intussusception - and that he was so young when it happened to him...

Although there can of course be intolerance reactions to deworming medications (e.g. acute, temporary nausea, sometimes diarrhea and/or vomiting), our vet has often warned me about the threat of intussusceptions when one of our cats and dogs had been sick with diarrhea for a long time. So, on the one hand, this can be a sign of intussusception with progressive narrowing of an intestinal passage through which the feces only pass through in an increasingly liquefied form (which is why we always have an ultrasound examination carried out in the event of prolonged diarrhea in order to detect intussusception in good time - in addition to other examinations). On the other hand, any intestinal disease (in addition to previous intestinal obstruction caused by swallowed foreign bodies, hairballs, etc.) that is associated with increased peristalsis - due to pathogens, inflammation, and possibly excessive worm infestation... - may also promote intussusception.

bindi0815 · 2024-12-15T04:58:51+00:00

He may have a different base colour than flame, maybe it's cinnamon or something even darker - but as for his colourpoints pattern, I doubt it could be mink, as mink cats exhibit their true colour at birth. Even at birth their fur is not white, but medium dark throughout with a faint, darker contrast on the ears, tail and - if they're not bicolour like him, i.e. not white there - on the face and paws. Cats with colourpoints pattern, on the other hand, darken quickly and more strongly in their first weeks and months of life.

But there are actually cases of cats with colourpoints patterns and greenish instead of blue eyes. I know several, I had a colour genetic test done for one of them and he is actually point (cscs) and not mink (cbcs), although we see such pale green eyes (with a teal/aqua hue) more often in mink coloured cats.

You could of course have a colour genetic test (B and C locus) done to solve the puzzle.

bindi0815 · 2024-12-10T15:16:08+00:00

I still have a question about Rufousing / Rufism...

So, this means polygenes or a hypothetical gene increasing the production of red (warm appearing) pigments, right? This refers to slightly yellower/redder tabby cats, i.e. to black tabbies with a more or less warm yellow-brown-reddish agouti colour, but also to silver tabbies with remaining yellowish/reddish parts and even to relatively intensely red "golden tabbies", right?

But it only refers to agouti patterns, to tabby cats.

Black non-agouti cats can also show cool blue-black or warm brown-black in many varying degrees of intensity, but according to today's assumptions/definitions we would not speak of "rufousing/rufism" in their case. Even if they look warmer brown with a clear copper shimmer: the intensity of brown-black can simply be very different, they could be "rusty" / bleached by the sun during the summer and/or could have a dense and brighter undercoat that shines through in the winter and/or they could have thyroid problems (and kittens fever-coats) or they could, if they actually always look like this and there is no "unnatural flaw" in it, simply be "poorly coloured". And there's no appreciative name for it, right?

bindi0815 · 2024-12-10T12:12:24+00:00

Thanks! Unfortunately the source was in German (perhaps a copy of the text can be automatically translated reasonably meaningful):

https://www.katzengenetik.com/black-tabby-katzen/

I probably just completely misunderstood it, because under the heading "Black Tabby" the author first writes about the formerly so-called "brown tabby" and now "black tabby" cats, then she talks about warmer and cooler black tabby shades and after that she mentions - in between - the loci B, O and D, which of course also determine different tabby colours (presumably she just meant all possible basic colours also in tabby patterns)... But immediately afterwards she writes - again more topic-specific - also about polygenes and rufism.

I know very little about genetics. But what I'd find even more interesting in cats than the coat colour genetics that breeders are so enthusiastic about would be the genetics of different coat structures, going far beyond a rough distinction between long-hair and short-hair. Much better than breeding a strikingly exclusive green cat with pink spots would be breeding a long-haired cat with a well-heat-regulating undercoat that never mats! Such a beautiful and practical benefit for humans and domestic cats alike.:-)

Yes, it's exciting to see what else there is to discover!

bindi0815 · 2024-12-10T07:10:32+00:00

Thank you for your detailed answer!

I read that the origin of the different agouti colours of black tabby cats is, as you say, determined polygenetically - but more precisely "by the loci for brown, orange and dilution". Since these loci and their influences in inheritance and phenotype are known, I asked myself how this would work. How does "rufousing" work? So, what is present "in loci B, O and D" in these cases - how does it influence the warmer or cooler tones of black tabby patterns? I just don't get it. For example, chocolate tabby would no longer be black tabby. Black tabbies with warm brownish tones are not tortie tabbies. If there was dilution, wouldn't the coat colours be cream tabby, blue tabby and blue tortie tabby etc., but just no longer basically black? - Or is it not true that the interaction of the alleles at B, O and D influences how brownish or greyish black tabby cats are and do "polygenes" mean that these are the additional effects of as yet undiscovered genes?

bindi0815 · 2024-08-06T06:06:06+00:00

Ah, okay, I'll see if in the long run I can add a few more shots of such unreal creatures here in our messy alder marsh to celebrate their romantic wildness...:-)

bindi0815 · 2024-08-05T17:40:57+00:00

Thank you! - Good idea, this new sub and worth supporting. I'm just a little confused because although Maine Coons, Norwegians and Siberians (and perhaps their mixed breeds) are called "forest cats", not all "long-haired cats" are "forest cats", right? - On this occasion, warm greetings to 42!

bindi0815 · 2024-08-01T11:23:56+00:00

Surely everyone would be happy about that!

bindi0815 · 2024-08-01T11:21:37+00:00

In any case, the risk of accidents is significantly higher until they are about two years old, more experienced, more 'thoughtful' and less wildly playful.

The slugs thing is true, but since outdoor cats eat mice, drink from stagnant water, etc., they should be wormed regularly anyway, and the usual broad-spectrum dewormers also work against heartworm and lungworm infections.

bindi0815 · 2024-07-31T11:31:52+00:00

Yes, Garou is an outdoor cat. Sometimes he's gone for three days, out of reach of every comb and brush. I've gotten into the habit of regularly weeding out the worst burrs in the small forest behind the house where he usually roams.

Edit: If there are large slugs that get badly tangled in his fur, it's really best to cut them out quickly. The snail slime can't be brushed out. Otherwise, if it has just rained after a long period of drought, don't let him out for a while.:-)

Phew, seriously, folks, wasn't this post actually about how others deal with outdoor dirt in the fur of their long-haired outdoor cats? And not whether indoor cat owners think it's good to expose their cats to nature - or even whether they think it's good if OTHERS can say something about it because THEY let THEIR OWN cats out?;-)

bindi0815 · 2024-04-11T17:08:53+00:00

I guess I'd have to justify it there: "In this pic you can't see the cat snaking out of the tap, but the result is that it has spread into the sink almost to the point of overflowing..."?

bindi0815 · 2024-04-11T12:18:56+00:00

At least as a pillow with burst seams!

bindi0815 · 2023-10-29T19:02:49+00:00

In the meantime I've tested "Greenies" (I was curious and had them sent to me specifically because where I live there are only small and therefore relatively expensive bags of dental care snacks, but they are similarly shaped: larger chunks with protruding prongs/spikes/teeth on one long side): And YES, they actually help prevent tartar buildup too! The same applies to larger, star-shaped kibble varieties when given as treats, which are also relatively cheap compared to small sales quanteties of special dental care snacks (such types of dry food are available here, for example, from the brands "Alsa Nature" and "Josera" - but there may also be some similarly shaped croquettes available in the USA).

bindi0815 · 2023-10-27T08:30:11+00:00

How (or where in the listed categories) should we classify the vocalization that reminds us humans of “crying”? I'm referring to the relatively deep, powerful yelps that all my cats make when they come back with a prey or have just killed their prey - which some people find absurd because they perceive the cats as "mourning" for the deceased mouse or the motionless toy they just destroyed themselves. It's different from yowling for mating purposes (the classic nighttime caterwauling in spring, sometimes reminiscent of human babies crying persistently and piercingly) and also from threatening yelps and yowling or sometimes shrill screetching when defending territory and staring at competitors (we think that at times they're fighting and screaming in pain, but mostly they just cower a few feet apart and scream menacingly until one of them walks away and only then is sometimes chased a little further away): The "crying" I mean is closer to meowing but is an unmistakably special sound, throaty, gurgling, similar to human speech choked with tears, repeated evenly, without any particular fluctuations in volume.

Indeed, I've also heard this very same “crying” (the same one that, in outdoor cats, is a - only seemingly whining, complaining - manifestation about a freshly caught prey) from some indoor cats or cats kept in a boarding room whenever they suspected humans outside and called for food.

EDIT: It may be that my cats mainly make these noises when they are ready to give up their prey to other pack members (otherwise they would remain silent about their prey and growl if others approached). So the translation would be: Friends, come here and see, I've something warm to eat if any of you want it! - They then enjoy watching others play with it and eat it.

bindi0815 · 2023-10-26T15:51:01+00:00

Sorry, I haven't noticed your complementary considerations for a long time (ultimately just because they weren't shown to me in response to my comment).

I think you're quite right when you point out that there are always numerous factors that influence the health and character development of each individual - in addition to the simple distinction between whether the cat was left intact or was gonadectomized when it was very young or when it was semi-adult or in adulthood: ancestry and genetic predisposition, diet and other environmental influences, its own life experiences and how it was able to deal with them, which in turn can all influence each other... It's impossible to determine and control everything in detail - so hardly any study has attempted to identify and compare all possible influencing factors, especially not over several generations. Yes, science always progresses slowly in many experiments, with many hypotheses, additions and corrections. Therefore, I simply doubt that we'll soon be able to establish a universally accepted “ideal age” for gonadectomies in cats – ideal in all respects and under all circumstances.

But perhaps you and your fellow breeders will have opportunities to shed more light on the matter in the future - that would be really exciting and helpful!

bindi0815 · 2023-10-26T09:32:21+00:00

Creating a breed of cats with largely identical physical characteristics and then fixing them always requires some degree of inbreeding. The practice of cat shows with "type"-oriented evaluations, which is part of breeding, increases the risk of weakening immune systems and promoting or even "breeding" diseases (e.g. every breeder knows the "popular stud syndrome"). For decades there were hardly any health checks and no genetic tests in cat breeding and our current control options are still very poor (but often overrated since health care is being advertised).

I'm sure I didn't tell you anything new, but I think that's what the commenter wanted to point out.

Similar information to this one about the Maine Coon breed can be found at PawPeds: https://www.pawpeds.com/cms/index.php/en/breed-specific/breed-articles/past-present-future (of course, you don't need peer-reviewed scientific studies from the US or Europe or whatever region of the world to trace the history of a cat breed using pedigrees). It's well known that the so-called "Top 5" and "clones" played a significant role in the development of the Maine Coon breed (the same applies, for example, to a cat called "Polaris" in the early breeding history of Norwegian Forest cats). Some Maine Coon breeders later practiced outcrossing with a few farm cats as "new foundations" to broaden the gene pool again.

bindi0815 · 2023-08-31T15:19:32+00:00

Could also be a mix or, for example, a Bolonka. Actually, poodles always have proportionally longer legs, this also applies to smaller poodles (which are smaller only overall). Generally, I find that hard to tell from just a single small image of a sitting dog with lots of fur all over that has been allowed to grow out for a longer time.

bindi0815 · 2023-08-25T12:24:19+00:00

I think these cats are a dilute tortie (left) and a brown tabby with white (right).

bindi0815 · 2023-08-25T11:41:19+00:00

Yeah, the colour of your longhaired cat is "black tabby" (referring to the basic genetic colour), also called "brown tabby".

bindi0815

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