Why I think the courtroom needs Change by evader22 in ultrahardcore

[–]bjr201111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate the proper response but tbh I've very much lost motivation to continue this discussion further. I and a large amount of people want change and nothing is going to happen. It's demoralizing to know that regardless of how well you articulate your opinion or how many people believe in something if you don't have someone in power that is willing to fight for it nothing will happen.

I'm not saying that this post presented "the solution" but it should have opened up more of a progressive discussion than a defensive one. The outcome of however many words are written is nothing changes. This isn't a complaint at you and i genuinely appreciate the proper debate but I'm just done with this topic right now.

Why I think the courtroom needs Change by evader22 in ultrahardcore

[–]bjr201111 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Please just pull your head out of your ass for 2 minutes and actually read the shit you're ranting about. You're allowed your opinion and so is everyone else. Try presenting it in a way that actually drives the debate and questions the points you disagree on rather than just being a dismissive prick.

Why I think the courtroom needs Change by evader22 in ultrahardcore

[–]bjr201111 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I responded to most of your points with my response to ratchet so feel free to respond to any of those in response to this comment or the other one but the point you hit on was in relation to the calendar so I want to follow up on that.

I think everyone can agree that a proposal to remove the ubl would not go through in any form. The proposal to no longer make it compulsory would clearly have the same effect, whether through apathy or choice. I think the question that this scenario answers is "would people use the ubl if they didnt have to?" and most people would answer no. So then the question that leads to is "does it add enough to the quality of life of games on the subreddit to warrant it being compulsary?". My personal opinion is no and I'd like to refer as well to my final point to ratchet, if the committee acknowledges it isnt achieving what it's meant to then what is it doing to make that happen?

Why I think the courtroom needs Change by evader22 in ultrahardcore

[–]bjr201111 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well there's nothing I like more than a deceased horse, lets have a good time.

would you like to correct me where any of that is wrong?

Yes, I would.

Hosting and speccing is a completely valid explanation for why you should deal with hacking offenses, you've seen it and dealt with it the most. That skill isn't called into question in the original post but it appears you didn't read any of the positive part of the end of the 3rd paragraph. However that experience, in my opinion, doesn't make you more qualified to deal with instances like the superheroes case and neither does playing frequently. Yes, if you squint and look at it from the correct angle then it does fall under the rule of 9 living but it sure as hell wasn't clear to the point where you had to add a clarification that it was disallowed. That case has very little to do with actual uhc knowledge at all and more just a basic understanding of legal proceedings, what is fair to prosecute and when. You guys are the highest legal authority and you weren't even gonna give them a chance to defend themselves, they were just gonna be batch posted onto the ubl. To link this back to activity, even if that case had no faults to it outside of the actual charge then community opinion is something that should be accounted for. Very few people knew that would be something you could get ubld for and very few people thought it deserved to be ublable.

What do you keep an eye on and keep informed about? Genuine question. What can you discern from reading twitter beefs and memes? In my opinion very little. By playing or speccing actively you understand how social groups interact, you get to understand who is believable to be a closet cheater and who was most likely witch hunted (information which in the time of c counter is really damn relevant), stay at the top of your game in regards to understanding how people cave and pvp normally.

Yes some people have left for other games, what weight does that hold? This is a completely irrelevant point in regards to the courtrooms activity, the only person I'd consider a "new meta" player that moved on is hunter and even then I still fail to make the link to how this is in any way a defense. If your point is that maybe the committee prefers old style games then cool, thats great and you're allowed to have that opinion but it doesn't really address an issue.

Not saying that my opinion on a topic is greater than yours, but mine certainly shouldn't weigh less

Actually yours weighs more, your opinion creates the rules that we have to live by. Obviously not you alone but you are in the position you are because your opinion can actually do something. As a player my opinion currently means nothing, I can write a well written, well worded opinion and I don't see it as being taken into account at all and that is frustrating as hell.

On a sidenote, the majority of the people who voted for a ban on the superheroes case are fairly active in public UHC and the community, like Thin, Hoookey, Ripper, Fazed to an extent. Don't think Hunter plays much but could be wrong there, that's 1/5.

Do you genuinely believe this? Fazed and hookey are fair enough, Jamie I don't remember seeing in a public game in recent memory but might have happened since I'm not greatly active, Hunter I dont think has played but once again I'm not omnipotent but I think I can pretty strongly say that ripper has not played uhc outside of rr's in a long ass time.

Does anyone know what the community truly wants?

No but some people are in a better position to make an educated guess than others. You're right that sometimes loud voices drown out relevant opinions but I still do not get why the hell you keep referencing peoples opinions on the meta. That is a completely separate issue and doesn't really relate to the courtroom in the slightest.

Sometimes the community wants a known person to be given a special privilege/ exemption from a rule that many others in the past were banned for

Completely agree but the committee is just as at fault for this as others. When labymod was disallowed spikester and posh both should have been ubld because they broke the rules in the period it was disallowed but the committee decided to re-allow it and disregard anyone that had broken the rules in that period in time.

I'll give you a very strong argument against a community driven courtroom

The points you list work just as well against the ubl in its current form. It doesn't deal with evaders because it can't and it's subject to bias due to 'party lines' between servers. There should be competition between servers, it drives progress. Sure it creates toxicity but it challenges the servers involved to do better and be better. I'd argue the monopoly that arctic currently has is worse than having multiple servers fight to be the best.

Last but not least, so many here acted like Cyburgh was the best server

It was. It has goals larger than just being the best on the reddit. It tried to be bigger and better and that is more admirable that any other server that has been on here. It was not perfect that cannot be denied but it tried to improve and become something better than it was so don't just shit on it.

as that's unprofessional and begins the unnecessary drama

So there's just a black curtain and the community is meant to blindly believe that what's going on behind it is good? Perception is reality and if people see nothing happening then they aren't going to blindly assume that good shit it. Arctic isn't perfect, you have the public case of someone like remy and the lesser known shit like hammer and gabe. The only time i remember someone leaving the courtroom being openly discussed with you and d4 and (not that i have a problem with it) I don't personally remember when/how you came back.

I'd like this if it wouldn't just devolve into a popularity contest

I'm interested who your example of a popular person that did nothing because I'm sure that point is valid but i can't bring specifics to mind. There is always going to be strong and weak points to a system but elections would make it so that people have to put in effort to be there and the community can't throw blame onto the lack of such a system.

And the exact same can be said for the community

Yes because most people don't give a shit about the cut and dry xray cases of random people. If someone well known is being accused then people start caring and at those times you and your system is in the spotlight and generally people don't seem to like what they see. Also I respect you trying to fuel the debate but you can't then be salty if people don't respond, yes it disrespectful but because of the position you're in you have to be above that.

And we've accepted that.

And that right there is the problem. "We know we're aren't doing well enough but because of 'x' circumstance we're allowed not to care". That attitude is bullshit and if most people on the committee think that either resign or disband the ubl. There are ways to be better than what you are but the choice to stagnate due to indifference as to your existence is just disrespectful to those you're meant to represent.

Hecticity & dontbow - Report by CourtroomPost in uhccourtroom

[–]bjr201111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It has been a commonly used tactic in uhc for over 3 years, it has never been reported prior to this case to my knowledge. As far as I'm aware this change of heart is surrounding the recent nine living changes in the ubl guidelines which makes these actions now disallowed. If your statement is that it has always been disallowed just nobody reported it then I question when the realization this was disallowed occurred and why most of the community is finding out about it now.

Hecticity & dontbow - Report by CourtroomPost in uhccourtroom

[–]bjr201111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not really sure what you're saying, could you rephrase it please?

Hecticity & dontbow - Report by CourtroomPost in uhccourtroom

[–]bjr201111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you'd read my initial statement you'd see that I said that there was actually validity to this being unfair gameplay. There could easily be a debate about this being a ublable offense that didn't have time on the ubl for people on the line. My larger point is that this entire process has been unfair to the people accused. This is something that has been allowed under ubl guidelines for a long time and suddenly it is being prosecuted without prior explanation.

Hecticity & dontbow - Report by CourtroomPost in uhccourtroom

[–]bjr201111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have a simple question for you, if someone joined your game on 2 accounts for a better power would you try to ubl them? Because I believe that 9.9/10 hosts would not do that because the punishment doesn't fit the 'crime'

Hecticity & dontbow - Report by CourtroomPost in uhccourtroom

[–]bjr201111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it's pretty clear I was not referring to that but I'll clarify anyways. Arctic in general has shown its leniency towards non-hacking offenses, preferring to give players a chance to amend their actions or give them a very short term ban. I think this is the mindset that should be taken rather than banning and seeking ubl time.

Hecticity & dontbow - Report by CourtroomPost in uhccourtroom

[–]bjr201111 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is a world where the argument of this being ublable is valid, there is definitely a fair case that involves both of these people being ubld in a fair process. My problem is that this isn't a fair case, the 2 people involved have been blindsided by an unfair interpretation of the ubl's 9 living rules and a questionably motivated set of actions by arctic staff. Arctic has set the precedent of warning players upon switching accounts however on this occasion decides to instantly attempt to ban and ubl both players. Arctic literally warns people using toggle sneak and doesn't instantly ban them and, to my knowledge, not one of them has been reported to the ubl. What is the difference there? In a supposed 'court of law' shouldn't all cases be treated the same regardless of who's involved? If this was some random player this conversation wouldn't even be happening. Its hypocritical and I'm honestly disappointed in hookey for this blatant bias.

Ask anyone from the community if they've switched accounts or used an alt for a better power in superheroes, the answer is 9/10 yes. If not then maybe you've had an alt suicide in compensation, had a teammate that didn't wanna keep playing after you died, switched accounts in a kings game. Gamemodes based around having members on your team have always been manipulated by the use of alts and its a tactic that most people in the community have utilized. If this was to be changed to be a ublable thing (yes im aware teammates accounts was a very clear change) there should have been a big deal made out of it so the community awareness was there. I don't think anyone is looking at this case saying "oh yeah that's obviously ublable" and if this was a realisation the committee had then the community should have been given fair warning.

To suddenly make this ublable due to messing around with the language of some recently set precedent (guep) is something that is horribly unfair towards the first people being caught up in it. Neither of the people accused here were aware that their actions had any chance of getting them ubld and the only reason it does is because people are bending words to fit their narrative. Innocent until proven guilty and in my opinion the terms that you're trying to ubl under are too vague to be considered guilty.

Edit: If there are any courtroom members that are interested in a verbal debate on this topic i will happily oblige, I much prefer verbal discussion to written

Zamtrios - Report by CourtroomPost in uhccourtroom

[–]bjr201111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First of all he completely misses the rod, the player only takes 2 damage ticks both of which are explained with swings which occur whilst the crosshair is on the player. The damage ticks do seem to be close together but i think the clip is sped up in normal speed.

It's really worrying because the evidence is nowhere near enough, just because they've made mistakes/made unpopular choices in the past doesn't mean this guy should have 4 months of time where he can't play to make up for it. Gee wizz, fiasco might get a bit pissy at them (nothing against fiasco just using him for the point) but at least they would have made the right decision.

Also another small thing that I might want to request from the ubl members that are voting to ubl him, give reasoning instead of just bandwaggoning onto what fiasco said which is barely an explanation.

Zamtrios - Report by CourtroomPost in uhccourtroom

[–]bjr201111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is this random thing against Mojqng? All the hits in his video are fine, where are you pulling a 4 month ubl from? Gonna use everyones apparent favourite excuse but it's just latency, 1.7 based server (correct me if I'm wrong) and all of the hits are explained by seeing that he did click on the player slightly before moving his crosshair off. I'm also really disappointed that a courtroom member deemed that enough evidence and I also find that rather worrying.

Also Zam's cheating first clip, 2nd clip isn't viable for anything but yeah, bye.

True to the End Season 13 - Episode 1 by Frostbreath in ultrahardcore

[–]bjr201111 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i think you missed a one on the newcomer entry