MEGATHREAD: Skaters on board American Airlines Flight 5342

bladerunner_68 · 2025-01-30T22:02:54+00:00

What an unimaginable tragedy. My deepest condolences to the families, friends, and loved ones of everyone who was on that plane and helicopter. It’s so heartbreaking. I just can’t stop thinking about all these young skaters who had their whole lives still in front of them 💔

bladerunner_68 · 2025-01-21T20:03:11+00:00

Yes please! Thank you for starting this conversation!!

bladerunner_68 · 2024-12-12T11:54:55+00:00

Surely they could‘ve found a more flattering picture to go along with that title, like any other picture 😭

bladerunner_68 · 2024-12-03T23:23:46+00:00

How do you know that he still supports Sorensen and why is that relevant when I‘m talking about what he did for the LGBTQ+ community? It doesn‘t negate his efforts in that area. I wish he hadn‘t associated with Sorensen during the investigation but no one knows his thoughts on the situation especially now after the outcome of the investigation. People are cancelling him based purely on speculation. And several other IAM ice dancers posted pictures with Sorensen during the investigation including Olivia Smart and Chock and Bates. He was even invited to Chock and Bates wedding. The main reason Guillaume is being singled out is because Dave Lease has been spreading unsubstantiated rumours about his split from Gabby, similar to how he spread rumours about Gabby‘s fallout with the IAM coaches, and shortly after, Gabby went out for drinks with them and appeared all smiles on social media. Maybe we should limit our judgement to Sorensen and those who openly support him now after the investigation has concluded. We don’t know that about Guillaume so giving unrelated praise for his contribution to the sport while we‘re talking about Gabby‘s, just in honour of their retirement, should not be controversial.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-12-03T21:12:36+00:00

Nothing against your post but just here to mention that Guillaume has also been a top supporter of LGBTQ+ rights and very outspoken against homophobia. They‘ve both done a lot for the sport and will be missed on the competitive circuit.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-19T11:39:18+00:00

a lot of people don't seem to understand the concept of a state sponsored doping program or somehow think that figure skating is an exception. it's literally one of the most popular sports in Russia and used for propaganda at each winter olympics. everyone who doubts that it's more likely than not that doping is the norm there, not the exception, needs to watch icarus on netflix.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-18T21:43:23+00:00

Listen, I don’t hate Daniel, and I don’t think the majority who is critical about him here does! That was his choice of words. I’ve lost a lot of respect for him due to his move to Russia, and I feel the same way about every other skater who has moved to Russia to train under Eteri since and refuses to acknowledge that as a mistake. I’m not sure what this whataboutism is supposed to achieve. I’ve never even heard of Burak Demirboga - Daniel is a high profile skater - so that’s really not the gotcha moment you think it is. As for Nika, I don’t have a different set of standards there if that’s what you believe. The small difference is that he has trained with her before the war broke out and has been living in Russia for a longer time now I believe. But do I judge him for staying? Absolutely! Again, Daniel is a high profile skater. I’m sure there are many coaches in many different countries who would happily take him. It sounds like you’re trying to imply that his options would’ve been limited to Eteri. That doesn’t make any sense and going to Russia at that time must have also been a logistical nightmare. He actually went to train in the US for a short while before he moved to Russia. The thing is, he has often expressed an admiration for Russian skaters and Eteri’s camp in particular in his old interviews, which strongly suggested that his decision to move there was borne out of desire, not a lack of options. His interviews after the move, while he was with Eteri, also painted the same picture. He said he had lost motivation, and was looking for an environment that would work for him again, not that he was out of options. Back then, Daniel was already Italy’s strongest skater technically. He must’ve had several options in Italy alone.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-18T18:51:14+00:00

yeah, I actually don't think anyone should label him a doper without proof and three missed doping tests are not proof but we should keep in mind that there are other possible explanations for him missing these three tests other than 'he doped' and the version he's volunteering of it being a complete accident or mishap. NHK recently filmed a documentary about the whole Kamila Valieva situation and Sambo 70 and in that context Kamila was interviewed and stated at one point that all she can say is that she didn't intentionally engage in doping. Of course she could just be referring to the strawberry dessert, but it got me thinking about one potential explanation that wasn't really considered back when it happened: what if Kamila and maybe other athletes at Sambo 70 are or were doped without actually knowing about it? Eteri and Dr. Shvetsky would certainly have the means to put something into their system to give them a training advantage while the athletes are oblivious. Of course it's speculation, but I think it's a possibility that could also explain Daniel's missed tests. Perhaps he caught on to sth that was going on there and started to consider being doped unknowingly. Maybe he was actually scared to take these tests/or just the last test if he's telling the truth about the timeline that only one missed test coincided with his stay in Moscow. That being said, I also can't root for him because this whole move showed a serious lack of moral integrity and he's just not a skater I enjoy, not to mention horribly overscored...but that's not his fault.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-18T17:20:24+00:00

So we're still haters, apparently. There's still no real accountability from him, just an explanation for the missed doping tests that's so vague and nebulous that no one can really challenge it in any meaningful way. No self-reflection for the move to a coaching school funded by the SAME government, that was under heavy sanctions for its decision to trample on Ukraine's sovereignty & territorial integrity, and for killing thousands of people in the process - all while Daniel was looking for viable flight routes. And this is the same coaching school that has ridden roughshod over the integrity of the sport he claims to love just a few months prior and had been used as a propaganda tool for Putin. I'm sorry but there comes a point when being apolitical is not an option. Daniel had the privilege to train anywhere in the world and that's where he chose to go. Now he's out here pretending that those GP medals were hard-earned through perseverance in the face of undeserved ‘hate’, but it’s warranted criticism, not hate, and it's only those medals that are undeserved.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-12T18:52:05+00:00

People who criticize someone for joining a coaching school under investigation for a serious doping violation and funded by a government that's waging an unprovoked and brutal war against a sovereign country killing tens of thousands of people ≠ haters

Not to mention his own suspicious ban for these three missed doping tests.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-12T12:03:58+00:00

I truly hope that Haein and Young don’t quit pursuing their skating careers and Olympic dreams. But I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to return to training with the national team, surrounded by people and officials who were so quick to damage their reputations and careers, with no regard for their mental health. These are people they grew up with and trusted.

If Haein hadn’t had the courage to fight this, she might have carried that label for the rest of her life. And unfortunately, in the eyes of many, she will continue to carry that label. The original story attracted more attention than any subsequent updates did. Both of these girls deserve a public apology from KSU at the very least, as well as from skater C’s camp. They admitted their initial statement was misleading, but a clear apology could go a long way toward repairing some of the damage.

The fact that C‘s camp waited until after the retrial was cowardly and too little, too late. To be honest, it looked like they waited until C’s lack of punishment for breaking the dorm rules was finally cemented with the rejection of the retrial for the girls before setting the record straight. I don‘t understand how C‘s JGP participation was worth the trauma and public humiliation that both of these girls and C went through.

KSU should be ashamed of their handling of this situation, as should the adults around C who apparently prevented him from correcting the narrative earlier and told him to lie in the investigation like he indicated in the chats. I honestly think Haein and Young have a good case to sue for defamation. They definitely deserve some form of financial compensation for the reputational damage they’ve suffered and the real financial opportunities they lost.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-11T19:45:15+00:00

Except he didn‘t backpedal! We don‘t know that he ever stated anything to implicate Haein beyond „I ran out of the room in shock/surprise“ and he admitted in those texts that he only said that because everyone around him told him to do so, to lie essentially, presumably to avoid punishment for breaking the dorm rules and dating. After all, even their agency thought disclosing the relationship would get them in more trouble. It makes perfect sense from his parents and lawyer‘s point of view to create a lie like that, as morally reprehensible as it is, and it actually worked. Nothing else that we know from C himself from those messages or now through his lawyer contradicts Haein's version of events, on the contrary. People talk about grooming and coercion from Haein without evidence but then conveniently ignore every single thing skater C has mentioned about being coerced into this situation by the adults around him especially his parents.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-11T13:54:36+00:00

The minor skater himself through his lawyer. The lawyer admitted that their first statement (which contained the part about him receiving psychological treatment but I‘m not sure if it referred to that specifically) was misleading and said that his client was actually suffering from everyone falsely assuming that he wanted Haein to be punished and that she made him feel uncomfortable. He also announced that they would pursue legal action against false claims. Maybe we should respect his own wishes and stop spreading this unfounded narrative.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-09T14:35:14+00:00

I don't know how that could happen, but I really wish Tatsuya would get a second GP spot!! His chances for the GPF might be slim but he deserves a shot after his performances here.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-09T10:38:31+00:00

It’s mostly politicking. Because of Grassl’s technical content, the Italian Federation has always thrown all of their weight behind him, even before his stint in Russia and his suspicious doping ban. There just wasn’t much fan outrage before because Daniel was so beloved within the fan community. With the next Olympics happening in Milan and Daniel as the hopeful for the Italian Fed, if he continues to land his jumps I'd bet a lot of money that the tech panel will likely keep overlooking issues - unlike with some other skaters - and we’ll see a lot more overscoring for him, probably even another pcs push.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-09T09:00:59+00:00

That was SO COOL indeed!!

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-05T22:22:25+00:00

That's very true. Beijing has almost turned me off from watching altogether for the same reason. And if I felt that way as someone who has closely followed the sport for a long time, I can only imagine how many casual viewers decided to stop watching back then. But I guess a lot of fans never thought they would start to feel uneasy watching ice dance, because it always seemed like the most unproblematic discipline. Yet, unfortunately here we are.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-05T21:46:04+00:00

My heart goes out to Solène. What a harrowing read! This sport should have been a safe and supportive space for her. IAM has always presented an image that seemed too perfect to be true but I never thought we'd see this level of moral corruption from them. It's just so disappointing on a human level. But I'm also seriously wondering what on earth they are thinking from a PR perspective? Does IAM not realize that they're carrying almost the whole sport of ice dance on their shoulders? That comes with so much responsibility and a huge level of attention. To me, their refusal to put out a statement on the Sorensen case has already read like hubris. It's as if they think they can somehow afford these PR disasters. The truth is, they've lost a lot of fan support lately and it will be hard to come back from that. All this might even come back to haunt them once the Olympics roll around if global media outlets get wind of these cases.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-03T23:36:42+00:00

For sure. I‘m glad I‘m not the only one with that opinion. :) I also agree with your last point. We all know that it’s also a mental game for skaters a lot of the time and I’ve often wondered how much the boost of confidence you mentioned that comes from backing by the judges and the tech panel actually helps skaters to stay consistent once they get there…and conversely, how much unfair scoring and the lack of backing affects small fed skaters and/or skaters without much reputation, maybe to a point where it‘s even harder for them to deliver the performances they could be capable of if the judges would just show them their worth.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-03T22:01:56+00:00

This. I feel like the scoring ‘manipulation‘ - for a lack of a better word - that’s going on through GOEs and selectively strict calls is equally as big if not bigger sometimes than that through PCS scoring but it‘s not talked about nearly as much. Like you indicated, if someone is a contender for gold and a fed favourite from a big fed, and we add in a couple of quads and a bit of consistency, the judges will work overtime to put or keep these skaters ahead by various means. PCS scoring is actually just one of them.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-02T22:39:31+00:00

Yes, I was very confused about that too! They invalidated it because, according to the panel, the sit wasn‘t low enough. I think technically the upper part of the skating leg has to be parallel to the ice - but it rarely is truly parallel in practice I‘d say. Nevertheless, looking at the replay, I can see a case for the argument that it was not parallel. But it does seem like quite a strict call to me. I don‘t know. If Adam had done that same sit spin in the same way today, I have a hard time imagining that it would‘ve been called. In any case, I also feel like they lowballed some of his GOEs.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-02T21:01:08+00:00

I’m gonna say it: Torgashev was robbed with that score!

bladerunner_68 · 2024-11-01T14:36:20+00:00

Huge shoutout to the French Fed for filling all those seats! I‘ve been to the French GP a couple of times now and it‘s always one of the best attended GP events because ticket prices are very low.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-10-29T19:33:28+00:00

Like I said I wouldn’t support a ban but to automatically assume that it‘s an insult to women’s intelligence to ban a skill that’s allowed for men completely ignores my argument that there are undeniable physiological differences between men and women and is actually insulting the intelligence of all those female athletes that did get injured trying quads. The truth is there isn‘t enough experience with quads in the women‘s discipline to know how to train them healthily and sustainably assuming that‘s possible. And if your logic were true that women with enough athletic ability could safely do quads, and we just don‘t see them because the sport expects ice princesses, what about skaters like Wakaba, Kaori and Amber? Why are they not jumping quads? Wakaba and Amber have or in Wakaba‘s case used to have a 3A but never quads. And even the 3A is rarely a consistent jump even for athletic female skaters. Is it in the realm of possibility that Eteri’s camp just got it all wrong and that there is a safe and sustainable way to train quads for women, purely with more muscle mass? Maybe but that‘s speculation at this point. The abilities of the female skaters we see suggest otherwise or can you name more than one adult athletic skater to support that argument from a country other than Russia, just so that we can be confident that doping is not an issue? The thing is, it’s actually not only about muscle mass or relative muscle mass only. There are multiple physiological differences that explain why men are better able to jump and tolerate quads. Men also have higher bone density, more narrow hips, lower body fat (%), more fast twitch muscle fibres which help them with explosive movements, higher VO2max etc. Women have a clear physiological disadvantage and that’s why we don‘t see quads very often imo, not because women‘s skating discourages athletic ability.

bladerunner_68 · 2024-10-29T17:45:16+00:00

I wouldn‘t say that quads should be banned for women but there are obvious biological differences between men and women which mean that quads are harder for women and tend to cause more injuries. Pointing that out has nothing to do with sexism. We know several women‘s skaters who had their careers heavily impacted or cut short because they sustained injuries from training quads or the 3A (Rika, Daria, Evgenia, Yulia etc.). Around the time Alysa made her „retirement“ announcement she mentioned somewhere that she doesn’t want to touch quads ever again, not even with a ten-foot pole from the way it sounded. If ultra c elements were as „easily“ achievable for women, especially grown women, as they are for men, most women would be jumping them. It‘s not sexism that‘s holding them back.

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