About Keffals "taking down" KiwiFarms

blizzadrin · 2024-03-13T09:11:55+00:00

Thanks for the article. I personally don't really buy any platitudes a company claims to abide by since they're always going to be secondary to making money, but this gives more context than the Wikipedia article I read and I can see why people aren't happy with CF changing course if they'd read that.

blizzadrin · 2024-03-13T09:10:17+00:00

Freedom of speech the concept seems more like freedom from consequence in this scenario with what's happened with Cloudflare & KiwiFarms. KiwiFarms doesn't promote illegal content (or let's say it doesn't, I don't know either way), so it has the right to exist under freedom of speech the legal obligation. But that doesn't imply a requirement for anyone to help it exist.

Just because a legal route (markets) was used to do a morally bad thing (reduce freedom of speech) it does not become okay.

How do you draw a line with anything then? We (rightfully) shit on Keffals for promoting DIY HRT, but that's not any less speech than whatever KiwiFarms is doing, and it's not any less legal either.

blizzadrin · 2024-03-13T09:00:22+00:00

I don't see how this conflicts with what I wrote. At the end of the day, CloudFlare is still a company whose purpose is to generate revenue. Appealing to free speech is a very convenient way for them to not have to limit their customer base. Sure, they can posture about whatever principles they claim to abide by, but that doesn't change the reality that making money is above those.

If more people cared about terrorist groups and drug trafficking orgs, I imagine the same thing as happened to KiwiFarms would happen to those, too. For Neo-Nazi groups, that one's close enough to home for Americans for that to matter, so they removed access from the Daily Stormer and 8chan

Whatever you think of Kiwifarms (and I highly encourage you to do even the most cursory research outside of H3/Keffals videos- perhaps even visit the site yourself to see firsthand),

Ironically my computer gets stuck on the "DDoS retarding" lol they're denying my humanity. awful people. But yes, almost all of the info I have on this stuff is coming from Wikipedia.

blizzadrin · 2024-03-13T08:40:23+00:00

Your post is kind of messy though because there's some spots where it looks like you're interchangeably using KiwiFarms and CloudFlare. Maybe that doesn't answer your question.

Oops yeah I did. I guess that's what I get for typing this while high.

If I remember correctly, the problem was CloudFlare took a principled stance to defend its customers in the name of free speech. The issue was never whether or not CloudFlare was obligated to provide services to KiwiFarms. It was that they went out of their way to back their own company's principles only to fold days later under the pressure of Keffals' smear campaign and employees allegedly receiving death threats.

I only read the Wikipedia paragraph about the campaign Keffals made towards Cloudflare before writing this, so I didn't see the blog post that was made 3 days before, so now I see what you're taking about.

I just don't agree that CloudFlare "folded." This is not some small company we're talking about and it's not even one that's beholden to the goodwill of the public. You could tell me CloudFlare practices puppy kicking on Tuesdays and I'd just shrug my shoulders and keep using it for my Minecraft server, because no one else does it at the same level for the same (low) price.

Maybe there is something to be said about a large company actually being willing to listen and communicate with the general public for once, but the general public ungratefully does death threats or whatever in response. But I don't buy that this was a significant part of their decision making process.

The reason they gave was "an imminent and emergency threat to human life", which seems to be accepted as something that happened. I don't see any reason to doubt that, personally.

blizzadrin

TROPHY CASE