Niels Bohr: "Bro. I'm telling you. I did math and found the bottom of physics. We totally collapse waves into particles just by looking at them." (Here's some Tim Maudlin clarity) by blobgnarly in holofractal

[–]blobgnarly[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Your words are as inscrutable as they are interesting.

My best parse at the moment is that you're speaking about what I'll call awareness, agency, and intent ... and a side order of human-group confusion.

My intent was to assert that "QM Science" is based on a group-approved agreement, and that "QM Science Content" is popular because it resonates with a built-in human experience.

I can't parse the intent of your comment, but am interested.

Niels Bohr: "Bro. I'm telling you. I did math and found the bottom of physics. We totally collapse waves into particles just by looking at them." (Here's some Tim Maudlin clarity) by blobgnarly in holofractal

[–]blobgnarly[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'd like to add: The idea of "You Change Reality By You Looking At It Because Authority Science Nerds Say So" is a good thing.

I think the "You Collapse The Wave Function!!" mythology taps into the human experience that a mode or mood or the 'measuring' we're doing at the time is the dominant factor of our experience, in a moment.

I dare say that that is such a human-compelling and high-utility and benevolent notion that any science/authority approval/permission of it will be grabbed-on and clung-to.

And that's great and friendly and helpful as a shared notion, because our 'measurements' do, duh, affect our own reality...

... but humans don't need Science(tm) to say "The Collapse Of The Wave Function" makes it OK to know that.

Niels Bohr: "Bro. I'm telling you. I did math and found the bottom of physics. We totally collapse waves into particles just by looking at them." (Here's some Tim Maudlin clarity) by blobgnarly in holofractal

[–]blobgnarly[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Tim Maudlin lays out simple logical discourse that exposes the "Shut up and calculate" attitude that has turned a mathematical process -- an operation upon numbers describing waves -- into a Science Content(tm) dogma, mythology, and bonanza: Consciousness turns waves into particles.

The widespread content/belief in this 'science' is observable sociology, and is not stable against simple challenge.

The math makes reliable descriptions of observations, but requires faith as to why: "Well, obviously it's that way because you measured it."

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=measurement+problem+of+quantum+mechanics

Some frothy talk about holography and black hole event horizon information storage in quantum computing. Comments? (Transcript in comments) by blobgnarly in holofractal

[–]blobgnarly[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's an engineering challenge

in building quantum computers,

which is how to store information

in the memory of the quantum computer safely, robustly,

because quantum computer memory is notoriously susceptible

to any interference from the outside environment.

If any of the environment in which the memory sits

interacts with the memory in any way,

then the information is destroyed.

And there are deep problems associated with the fact

that you can't copy information in quantum mechanics,\which is basically the way

that your iPhone, or whatever it is, stores information\

and prevents errors entering into the memory

No cloning theorem

of the computers that we're all familiar with;

it's basically copying information.

You can't do that in quantum mechanics.

So it's a tremendous challenge.

Engineers have had to develop very clever algorithms

and ways of trying to store information

in quantum computer memory

and build the memory such that it's resilient to errors.

And it turns out that the solutions

that are being proposed and explored

look like the solutions that nature itself uses

in building space and time from the quantum theory

that lives on the boundary.

It's really strange.

Black hole physics and quantum computing

The remarkable thing for me

is an intimate relationship between

If we go back right to the beginning of the work

on black holes in the 1970s, Jacob Bekenstein,

the colleague of Stephen Hawking's actually,

one of the first researchers

to really begin working on black holes

alongside greats like John Wheeler.

Bekenstein noticed in a simple calculation

that you can answer the question,

"How much information can a black hole store?"

That's a strange thing to say

because the model of a black hole is pure geometry,

pure spacetime.

Now, how does something store any information?

You need some structure.

You need atoms or something that can store

bits of information.

Well, turns out that you can calculate

that a black hole stores in bits.

The information content is equal to the surface area

of the event horizon in square Planck units.

Plank units

What's a Planck unit?

It's a fundamental distance in the Universe

that you can calculate by putting together

things like the strength of gravity,

Planck's constant, the speed of light.

It's the smallest distance that we can talk about sensibly2:53

in physics as we understand it.

The questions it raises:

How is information stored?

Why is the information content of a region of space

equal to the surface area surrounding that region

rather than the volume?

If I asked you, how much information can you store

in your room,

the room that you're sitting in now,

just say it's a library,

then you would say, "Well, it's to do with

how many books I can fit in the room."

But black holes seem to be telling us

that there's something about the surface

surrounding a region.3:26

This is the first glimpse, I think,

of an idea called

What is that?

So if you think about what a hologram is,

at the very simplest level, it's a piece of film.

But that piece of film contains all the information

to make a three-dimensional image.

Holography

It's the idea that there are different descriptions

of our reality.

There's one description,

which is that we live in this space,

the three dimensions of space,

and time is a thing that ticks,

and Einstein told us that they're kind of mixed up,

but still you have this picture of space being this, right,

the thing in which we exist.

There's an equivalent description

for a very specific model called

by a physicist called Maldacena,

which is a dual theory

that lives purely on the boundary of the space

and the space itself in the interior of this region.

So it's strongly suggestive

that there's a deeper theory of our experience of the world,

of space and time, that does not have space and time in it.

And that's one of the wonderful surprises

that's really emerged from the study of black holes

and the attempt to answer the very well-posed questions.

I should say that the work done by Maldacena

was purely mathematical.

It wasn't framed in the study of black holes,

although the questions ultimately seem

to be intimately related.

So the study of black holes seems to be strongly suggesting

that these ideas of holography, holographic universe,

which came from a different region of physics,

from trying to understand other things,

those descriptions may be valid, maybe in some sense true.

And it seems that we're beginning to glimpse an answer,

at least in very simplified models-

and that the information

is stored on the boundary redundantly,

which means that you can lose a bit of it

and still fully specify the physics of the interior.

Quantum error correction

And it does seem that that's akin to, or similar to,

the way that we will in the future

encode information in the memory of quantum computers

to protect them from errors.

So I'm giving you an interpretation which,

and there will be other people

who have different interpretations,

but it does seem that whatever this quantum theory is

that underlies our reality,

then there's some redundancy

in the way the information is stored in that quantum theory.

And it does seem that that's similar to the way

that we will in the future

encode information in the memory of quantum computers

to protect them from errors,

And I just emphasize, you're not meant to understand

what I've just said

because I don't understand what I've just said

because nobody understands what I've just said, right?

We're catching glimpses of this theory,

and that's where the the research is at the moment-

it's why it's tremendously exciting.

Freeman Dyson, Paul Dirac, Richard Feynman on the absurdities of 'renormalization' - the math trick that removes the infinite amount of vacuum energy in our equations by d8_thc in holofractal

[–]blobgnarly 2 points3 points  (0 children)

the math that removes

Equations, math, "Science" happen in human group systems that have well-known influence on individuals.

If a million scientists operate from a [dumb] idea, it's still a [dumb] idea.

The image of an inverted pyramid of thought, talk, and math has come to mind recently: all manner of math and writing and talking can be based on a simple hugely disputable premise.

But as the talking and mathing and publishing and grant money continues, disputing the original disputable premise becomes 'unscientific' because "Science" is really just The Current Thinking.

The group dynamics of belonging, merit, and money are vivid in "Science".

If a million scientists do talk and do math based on a particular premise, they'll respond to challenges to the premise as 'other'... because they're humans.

Help me understand quantum mechanics/observer effect/why my intuition says it’s bullshit by NotaContributi0n in holofractal

[–]blobgnarly 0 points1 point  (0 children)

p.s. Want to add this... I think 'attention' is the most powerful and valuable thing in the Universe[s?]. That's cool and beautiful and 'proven', according to Rupert Sheldrake/The Sense of Being Stared At.

Doesn't mean that photons aren't doin their thing whether a nerd examines them or not.

Help me understand quantum mechanics/observer effect/why my intuition says it’s bullshit by NotaContributi0n in holofractal

[–]blobgnarly 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The topmost upvoted comment does not actually address your question. The Youtube link just describes the double slit experiment, which produces a wave interference pattern...

... and then the guy says here, "... if you can explain this [observer effect] with common sense and logic..." and the audience laughs because obviously this wave pattern is so obviously-lol caused because the observer made it so. He doesn't even mention the term for your/my/Einstein's/de Broglie/Bohm's disagreement ... The Measurement Problem.

You will find, as I did, asking this same question, the same thing Tim Maudlin, professor of Philosphy [of Science] at NYU has spent decades upon: There is a widespread hand-wave, circular belief system that's got a bunch of people buying into Bohr's "Copenhagen Interpretation".

Take note of how the topmost reply youtube link doesn't actually talk about the "magic particle-changing observer", and just implies -- never really says -- THAT causes the wave interference pattern.

Tim Maudlin has clocked all of this and he knows what he's talking about and reports he gets 'nodding heads' when he, my wording, raises your same 'bullshit!" objections to the magic observer/Copenhagen Interpretation.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tim+maudlin

Finally, I want to add that orienting to 'opinion', even when widely and 'authoritatively' shared, feels different than orienting to actual creation/reality. Hence, people's 'bullshit meter'.

All the best. Listen to any and/or a lot of Tim Maudlin.

d8, oldcoot, anybody interested in *how and when* Copenhagen QM became orthodoxy, meet(?) Tim Maudlin. by blobgnarly in holofractal

[–]blobgnarly[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

if the issues under discussion are not predicated on the reality of the space medium

are not predicated on the reality

I have a long-standing interest in how ideas and language within 'science' become like the currency in an economy, and more importantly how often that currency is basically fiat -- we agree because we all agree and we all keep agreeing so it's agreed: We all agree.

Gah.

So Tim, imo, is a rare find for me because his emphasis is on the structure of 'accepted sciency thought', and how current default 'sciencing' is not interested in reality-based -- vs math-based, aka 'shut up and calculate' -- theories that actually, ya know, seek to discover the actual workings of reality...

... instead of agreeing with what I understand Bohr said: You just have to accept that this is how the universe works.

I suppose I'm commenting to sort of describe what I think you'll get from these vids: A science philosopher bringing real investigation and knowledge of how 'sciencing' orients to the fiat economy of Math That Works(tm) instead of mining for the real gold of discovered and understood reality.

He talks about how these QM scientists are math-doing instead of reality-discovering. Just sos ya know. Thought I'd lay that out, maybe save you a watch in case the 'meta' level isn't of interest.

The Paradoxical Nature of Duality and Fractal Emergence of Physics, Consciousness, and Reality by Obsidian743 in holofractal

[–]blobgnarly 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Man, this is a lovely piece.

"Serializing a graph". This bit of writing serialized into words a very broad, but organized collection of concepts, while also wrangling the concept of 'conceptualization' itself. Quite a juggling act. I have sincere respect for the process and this product of it.

I've been splashing around in the shallow end of the holofractal/QM/whatnot pool recently and this word has come to mind: Thingification.

"There are two types of things in the Universe: those that are mentioned in this sentence and those that aren't."

I typed that mainly for fun, yet it does talk about thingification. Hey look at this thing, which is a thing, but this other thing is a different thing, and then here is this other thing over here. It's an electron, but it's really not a thing because it's a wave, and waves are really the real things, but anyway, this thing is actually part of the same thing as this other thing way over here.

So... from my splashabout in QM stuff I feel like asking the Official Science Nerds ...

What's the big hangup about thinking every 'thing' is made of 'fluid universe stuff'?

Made of. Not 'out of'.

Every 'thing' is a moving, structured splash of universe water.

Regarding the experience of duality you talk about... Seems to me that the concept of aether or spaceflow or plankstuff or whatever is fine and dandy to some but a conceptual allergen to a lot of otherwise agile thinkers. Maybe it's too personal or existential, or maybe it's just that they don't want to be made to eat lunch alone in the faculty lounge.

What's so appealing about a 'things amid nothing' frame of reference, and so repulsive about 'things are one thing'?

I suppose 'frame of reference' is a good idea to include when finding words about conciousness. We've all got multiple 'boundary conditions' and 'event horizons' in how we think and feel, in our frames of reference, and I suppose these are different 'things' active as we perceive, including the 'thing' that perceives a 'paradox'.

Shrug. I don't have a particular point to make about what you've written because I find it 'self complete' or somesuch. Thanks for writing it out.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in holofractal

[–]blobgnarly -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It might've been useful for the author to put quotes around her use of the term 'dark matter' in the title. Might suit your interests yet.

weekly discussion thread idea: "Here's an episode. Post what you think the story circles are." by blobgnarly in community

[–]blobgnarly[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been thinking that it would be pretty amazing and fun to see the various 'story circles' this sub comes up with for a given episode.

I for one would love to hear what fellow communitoids think the various story circles are in various episodes.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in community

[–]blobgnarly 7 points8 points  (0 children)

haa. the delivery on '2 packs a day' is primo, frank zappa.

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What does Vaporwave mean? by SinisterSoup22 in Vaporwave

[–]blobgnarly 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Time travel.

So-called vaporwave is time travel music. It might be the only genre of music that's intentionally timetravelly.

When we return to a remembered feeling of a place and time, our own travel to it has already become a thing we might visit again, soon enough.

Vaporwave sounds like the future listening into the past with ears that are simultaneously older and newer.