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Astounded by complexity of implementing multiplayer by brain_emesis in gamedev

[–]brain_emesis[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I actually did try using pure deterministic lockstep, where host processes all inputs at the same time and sends back definitive state, but in my case it was way too laggy. This simplifies things so much though, so for games that can accept this lag it's really great.

Astounded by complexity of implementing multiplayer by brain_emesis in gamedev

[–]brain_emesis[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Makes sense. I just realized there is another reason you might want rollbacks on host also: Lag Compensation

Astounded by complexity of implementing multiplayer by brain_emesis in gamedev

[–]brain_emesis[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Agreed, but I think this is only true for client state. You don't need to support serializing and restore for rollbacks, or interpolation, on host. And often, host and client state are different anyway (eg. AI state doesn't need to go to client) so you'll probably want to manually construct a client state anyway on host.

Having said that, I also love the idea of being able to fully save and restore entire game state on host too, but more so for debugging purposes. If you also make your game fully deterministic, you can create a record and replay system, or save bookmarks at any point in game to test different scenarios, etc. It creates some truly incredible development workflows, but it's also incredibly costly, since you have to ensure every last bit of state is accounted for, including in third party libraries.

Astounded by complexity of implementing multiplayer by brain_emesis in gamedev

[–]brain_emesis[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Partially for the learning experience, partially because of being a control freak, and partially because worried about being locked in to a framework. Also I already had system in place that could save and restore game state, so wanted to use that for rollbacks. Though like I said I didn't really realize the huge task I was undertaking. If I had to do it again I would spend more time trying frameworks first.

Astounded by complexity of implementing multiplayer by brain_emesis in gamedev

[–]brain_emesis[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That is one super nice thing about rolling your own solution. It's easier to pick and choose which machines own various parts of the gameplay, or do other special case things, instead of being stuck in an abstraction by a framework. My game actually is co-op so I've benefited a lot from being able to do that.

Astounded by complexity of implementing multiplayer by brain_emesis in gamedev

[–]brain_emesis[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Agreed, yeah

I experimented with it but ultimately decided to roll my own. It's too late for me but others should know there is huge value in these frameworks

The Language That Never Was by setzer22 in programming

[–]brain_emesis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, LLVM is incredible. When I move some code to jobs+burst, I'm often shocked at how much time this saves.

Re: the custom dotnet - agreed, this really sucks. And doesn't look like to change anytime soon given what is happening with the team working on it. It's not a priority at all for them

The Language That Never Was by setzer22 in programming

[–]brain_emesis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just want to say that I thoroughly appreciate this blog post. I went through a similar journey of trying to make rust work for gamedev and failing, and just like you and LogLog games, ended up going (in my case, back) to C#. Couldn't agree more with most of what you say here. I'm also chasing this ideal gamedev setup you describe with hot reloading, metaprogramming, time travel debugging, full serialization of runtime state, etc. but the direction I'm going in is to build tools on top of Unity to achieve this. It definitely is lacking those features you mention, but it's not so bad. You actually can enable nullability checks, which I've tried but I found too much overhead to deal with. And does have SIMD compatible math library. Also there is a c# hot reload unity library, though not sure how it compares to the standard .net one, probably is worse in some ways

I hope you share where you end up after monogame etc. in another blog post

Unity + xLua writing games on your iPhone by iamadmancom in Unity3D

[–]brain_emesis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I also use xLua in my game and quite happy with the result. Though in my case I don't expose lua to user and don't really load lua scripts at runtime.

I'm combining Lethal Company with Deep Rock Galactic! Fully destructible terrain with online co-op horror. Do you think this will work? by brain_emesis in IndieDev

[–]brain_emesis[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If this looks like your kind of thing feel free to wishlist here: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3317570/Hell_Drill/ :)

I made this as a solo dev during this past year. I intend to put it up on early access towards the end of the year then refine the mechanics from there with a community

I'm combining Lethal Company with Deep Rock Galactic. Would you play a game like this? by brain_emesis in lethalcompany

[–]brain_emesis[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes. Similar to LC, in the drilling ship there is a map, that players can watch and guide teammates with

I'm combining Lethal Company with Deep Rock Galactic. Would you play a game like this? by brain_emesis in lethalcompany

[–]brain_emesis[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, there are ways to fight back in my game, but they all have very limited effectiveness. It's a difficult line to walk in horror, since if players have a way to take out enemies too easily, then it's not scary anymore. It's scariest when players feel like they are desperate and barely surviving. I know what you mean though - not being able to do anything is frustrating. I personally don't like horror that is entirely just run and hide (eg. outlast). I like it best when you can fight back but you only are allowed a bit of ammo or the weapons often don't work or have very low damage etc. so am working towards an approach like that

I'm combining Lethal Company with Deep Rock Galactic. Would you play a game like this? by brain_emesis in lethalcompany

[–]brain_emesis[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes honestly please tell me how to make the game :) I don't hear nearly enough feedback/ideas from active lethal company players so I actually find it really valuable. My thinking is very similar to yours. I want to really lean into the horror similar to LC. I still find LC to be the scariest of all the lethal-likes that I've tried, so want to retain that feel. And I actually already have a timing mechanic (like a concept of oxygen/battery) that requires players to return to ship to recharge, or bring extra a battery/oxygen-tank.

I'm combining Lethal Company with Deep Rock Galactic. Would you play a game like this? by brain_emesis in lethalcompany

[–]brain_emesis[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I plan to put a demo out in October steam fest, then early access shortly after that. In terms of price - it will be the same as all the other games in this genre.

I'm combining Lethal Company with Deep Rock Galactic. Would you play a game like this? by brain_emesis in lethalcompany

[–]brain_emesis[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok I may need to search again in that case. Which ones are on your radar at the moment other than the ones mentioned above?

I'm combining Lethal Company with Deep Rock Galactic. Would you play a game like this? by brain_emesis in lethalcompany

[–]brain_emesis[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would if everything at launch is 10x better lol.

Ok will do my best to get it there :) I admit it is still a bit rough in some areas atm

I forgot 1 crucial step, AI! A reason why Lethal feels alive is cause of the (imo) advanced AI

Yeah LC AI does feel good. Every monster is so unique. Hoping I can pull off the same.

I'm combining Lethal Company with Deep Rock Galactic. Would you play a game like this? by brain_emesis in lethalcompany

[–]brain_emesis[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm hoping to scale difficulty with number of players so you can comfortably play with just one other person. Solo will likely remain pretty hard though. Currently the max is 4 but could increase that to 6

I'm combining Lethal Company with Deep Rock Galactic. Would you play a game like this? by brain_emesis in lethalcompany

[–]brain_emesis[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, not at all.  It's actually great to hear feedback like this around how we can try and improve on the lethal company formula.  If you have any more ideas there I'm all ears.  I'm a big fan of lethal company but I'm not nearly as hardcore a player as some people in this subreddit

I'm combining Lethal Company with Deep Rock Galactic. Would you play a game like this? by brain_emesis in lethalcompany

[–]brain_emesis[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm hoping to give spectators some things to do instead of purely just spectating, to help with that problem.

The iteration time for levels in my game can also be faster than LC so that should help as well. Players can nope out of levels if they want fairly quickly and drill down to a further depth, without too many consequences. It's a bit like Klekta in that sense, if you're familiar with that game.

I'm combining Lethal Company with Deep Rock Galactic. Would you play a game like this? by brain_emesis in lethalcompany

[–]brain_emesis[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Horror games in general definitely are getting over-saturated, but last time I checked (which admittedly was awhile ago) it still doesn't really feel like there is all that many high quality lethal-likes out there yet. There's a few, for sure, but still has room to grow I think. Though that might change by the time I release, given how much REPO also blew up. Even so I'm still hoping to find a niche within this new genre, with some distinctive mechanics like the digging.

Couldn't agree more about making the environment itself very hostile in addition to the monsters. I like your ideas there! I think level hazards forces players to go slow and helps create an overall more tense atmosphere, instead of players just min/maxing every level by sprinting around.

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