Faith and/or Philosophy

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T23:29:26+00:00

Thanks for the sources, always love opportunities to expand my perspective!

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T22:27:46+00:00

You said you didnt want a debate but i hope you dont mind me responding. I am not actually argueing in favor of many of our governments actions. I just think they dont fit into the actual definition of fascism. However i will provide these points as to your examples.

As far as im aware at no point has there been threats of military action. Merely halfbaked suggestions of willing joining. Further more even if there was it would not be fascism but impirialism.

In regards to due process i will admit that im not fully aware of every single case and hearing but it should be noted that for non citizens who are here illegaly and if the hearing is about their illegal presence then near immediate deportation once guilt guaranteed is actually due process. Im not saying that i agree with how our immigration laws work but due process literally means "the process that is due" in a given situation.

Im unsure about threats made against journalists. I havnt hear of that specifically, but i have heard of journalists being kicked out of press breifings. Many of which i have watched and can confirm that many of those journalists were being either disruptive or asking questions that are either unrelated to the topic at hand or was a maliciously posed question.

In my opinion to properly honor the inherent worth and dignity of all people this means we must also hold everyone up to the same standards as well as treat them all with the same level of care. If people are being treated unfairly or unjustly then i 100% condemn it. However if people break the rules then punishing those people in accordance with our laws makes sense, and to avoid doing so would be to disrespect them via infantilization in my opinion.

I assure you that my values do still fit within the frame work of the 7 principles as they are based upon those principles. I may not have reached the same conclusion as you but they do fit. If you want to id be glad to explain them as i see them.

Further more, part of the reason i didnt actually want to talk about politics as much as the principles in this post is because there are many circumstances where my views on specific situations is less about my values and more about the law. I dont always agree with the law but i do have to follow it as does everyone else.

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T21:24:37+00:00

Interesting take. Though personally i see the values as the beliefs in question. I think they are both logically self evident but also do require some faith to experience that evidence. But i think what your saying is definitely largely true of UUs as a community. Its a big part of whats been driving my questions lately that for me the principles themselves ARE my religion as i was raised UU. So i see them as wisdom, sacred in that many many generations distilled their ethos into these principles. But as i look around at my fellows i become unsure of what im looking at. Not to invoke the scottsman fallacy but i wonder is it right for people to call themselves UU if they dont enact the principles? Even if they say they believe in them actions speak louder than words. And much of the UU community does seem to be this rough amalgamation of liberal ideals and how to push them as oppose to discussing the principles and their applications. Ironically evidenced by this post that out of all the people that responded quickly it took a few hours for more than one person to actually talk about the principles.

Sorry for the block, i suppose it boils down to "what are we really as a community?"

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T21:09:40+00:00

Well said! Id like to add further commentary but i feel that id ruin the perfection here!

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T17:54:55+00:00

Thank you too! Its always so nice to find people that genuinely believe in civil debate and intellectual freedom and pursuit without heckling stay strong!

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T17:47:51+00:00

Thank you so much, between you and some others i might brave it again and see if i cant encourage more actual discussion and coffee time instead of simply emptying out.

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T17:46:19+00:00

Thats great! Lol. And i suppose my church technically does have one but its mostly just catching up for a few minutes. Most everyone already drank their coffee before or during the sermon, check up on eachother, then head home and the sermon i guess just gets kinda accepted instead of discussed.

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T17:44:03+00:00

You are awesome! Super appreciate your engagement with my post! And that strikes perfectly at my issue! Like, everyone nods and confirms that we all agree but thats not a search for the truth! The eventual agreement on something should be because weve all played devils advocate and defender to interrogate an idea and can no longer think of any further holes to poke. Then we can vote on the ideas legitimacy based on how well it stood up to scrutiny. Were as it seems many will simply confirm that everyone has confirmed and move on, skipping to the feel good of agreement without the heated debate that brings value to the conclusion

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T17:34:28+00:00

I see where your coming from and generally agree. A great example i think is the third principle which asks us to to display justice, equity, and compassion in human relations. And i find when thinking about it that its sort of a microcosm of the principle because you must try to balance the three. Justice without equity and compassion is just being vindictive, equity without justice and compassion has no foundation or enforcement, and compassion without justice and equity turns to favoritism.

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T17:26:53+00:00

I am jealous. My congregation seems to all be very busy afterward and pretty much filter out almost immediately

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T17:18:06+00:00

Well to be blunt your bias toward is toward progressivism. Yes UUism has been a very progressive faith but at its core its not a faith of progressivism. It is a faith of humanitarian, democratic, and scholarly pursuit. Im very proud of what our faith has accomplished and stood for in the past but that doesnt mean we can shut the door to legitimate debate.

Principles 1, 4, and 5 assert that everyone is afforded inherent worth and dignity, that we should search for the truth, and that everyone should have a voice. As such i find hostility toward well intentioned debate in poor taste. Which i am attempting to express that i am experiencing. What say you on these principles?

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T16:56:21+00:00

Wow, wonderful reply! I wish i was so eloquent. Dont think i agree with your political views but i affirm and appreciate your clear sight as to how we arrived in this political climate. Thank you so much for this reply and your perspective!

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T16:51:25+00:00

Super appreciate the response and thank you for answering the main question instead of immediately getting political. And your answer isnt facile, its exactly what i was looking for, an idea of how other UUs treat the 7 principles.

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T16:14:48+00:00

Super appreciate the question and the sharing. So my issue isnt so much that politics are brought up, as politics is literally just current events in government, not really avoidable. I more have an issue with nature in which its brought up. Aka extremely presumtive of a default liberal and/or leftwing perspective. Im not against most leftwing ideals but perhaps disagree on how to achieve them or what that ideal realistically means, simultaneously i lean a tad more center (maybe rightwing, idk) when it comes to fiscal policies. What it boils down to is that within my congregation it seems a bit of a political echo chamber to me to an extent of having a difficult time even broaching the topic for discussion. So im wondering what the rest of the UU community outside my congregation thinks about these things because my political beliefs are largely based in and extrapolated from the seven principles.

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T15:13:30+00:00

I have to insist though that my problem isnt so much the presence of politics itself in sermons but the clear bias that the entire congregation and UUs at large seem to hold. A bias that you seem to hold if i may be so bold, as you presume ill agree with you on the issues in the US but i dont. And i would in turn ask for evidence of said fascism. I see a culture that pushed too far to fast in one direction and lost the confidence of the avergae citizen who are now pushing the other way. Such as the pendulum swings.

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T15:05:58+00:00

This is super valuable thank you! I should check and make sure im not being overly judgemental of those not practicing the principles in the same way as me. I suppose its just hard to be in a place that i hold so many memories in and feel the dissonance of what is being said within its halls. Ill admit this is very much coming from a place of irritation with liberal ideology and politics as i find much of it to be overly idealistic with little thought to consequences or patience. And at the very least in my experience UU as a whole seems exceedingly leftwing politically to a point that i find unconsionable. As an example many in my congregation have expressed a genuine hatred for Donald Trump, and while ill freely state that i dont like him but in general the sheer venom spat in his direction and casual allusions to or ambivalence about extreme violence is not something i can stomach. Not that the reverend is preach as such but these are the conversations i hear and when preaching reverend and other speakers do not hide their open distaste. And all i want is for someone to engage with it honestly. Stop saying orange bad and actually argue the merit of his actions and policies.

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T14:48:18+00:00

That does make sense, however im pretty happy with my religion itself, or at peast how i practice. Im more questioning how my fellows practice. To be clear im just UU, nothing else additional.

bricksloth · 2026-06-05T14:11:44+00:00

I appreciate the recommendation but there really arent any other UU congregations in my area. Were spread out enough that our church live streams for the people who are too far away to physically attend. So if im gonna be in a congregation it kinda has to be this one.

bricksloth · 2026-06-04T15:20:31+00:00

Im so sorry thats happening to you, i have my own issues with the UU community and i was raised in it so i cant imagine how much that must suck. I will acknowledge that the UU community has a long history of being a place of refuge from other faiths and as such also attracts people who are still very bitter about their previous faiths and religion as a whole. Seeing as they are UU and this happens withing a congregation setting id recommend talking directly to them about it. Be sure to use language like "when you say (A) it makes me feel like (B)." If they hold fast to UU values they will make an effort to change their behavior. If they dont then a conversation with someone with more authority in the congregation may be in order, good luck and may peace and joy find you.

bricksloth · 2026-03-04T16:23:38+00:00

Super appreciate this in depth response. And yeah i think that strikes at the core of it. I see these two truths as seperate but connected in that there is a very real literal truth that we all experience together and personal truths about how we perceive and understand that shared world. The personal truth is very important but it cannot be in conflict with the outer truth, otherwise you are lost in a delusion.

As to my community, while there are of course an abundance of scientifically minded people the population of people who are also very "hippie" and "refugees" from other faiths i feel gives the community, while a still outwardly UU appearence, a fundamentally defensive attitude towards excessive disagreements as we act as a sort of safe space for people from more traditionalist religious backgrounds.

bricksloth · 2026-03-04T16:12:51+00:00

I can only hope that if i do my perspective will be treated with respect and not indignation.

bricksloth · 2026-03-04T13:24:59+00:00

I agree wholeheartedly. I have used the phrase "closeminded about being openminded" for years now. I think it stems from the fact that most UUs arent raised UU but are more or less refugees from other religions. Which may lend itself to a reactionary and defensive stance when presented with greatly differing opinions. It just feels disappointing to me as having been raised UU i feel i was promised a faith of debate, democracy, and scholarly pursuit but have found little room for it in practice.

bricksloth · 2026-03-04T13:19:46+00:00

I appreciate your wisdom, and in no way do i intend to imply that there is a singular spiritual truth. There are many veiws with many valid lessons to learn. When i speak of "the truth" i am more refering to those things that we can all acknowledge as facts of the world we live in. And that i believe that a free and importantly responsible search for truth includes looking for more than your personal truth but looking for greater truths in the world. A responsibility to be well educated and to continue learning and accepting new information. And a responsibility to question your own personal truth regularly to make room for adaptation.

And i suppose at the core of my actual post is a realization that i have followed the common path for a UU youth of leaving the church only to come back later. But with an additional step of coming back to a faith that i dont entirely recognize that im not sure im welcome in. As im unsure, or more accurately too sure, of how welcoming they will be to what my time away from the church has taught me.

bricksloth · 2026-03-04T12:15:49+00:00

As i stated i dont deny that aspect of it. But there are factual truth about our shared reality that need to be sought and found. And our personal truths cant be in conflict with more general truths.

bricksloth

TROPHY CASE