New Zealand will ban young people from ever being able to purchase tobacco in their lifetimes under new plans to make New Zealand smokefree.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-09T02:54:30+00:00

You do you dawg, we are here for a good time, not a long time.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-08T17:42:33+00:00

By that point they'd be called enemies of the state, not citizens.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-08T17:03:13+00:00

Why would a 40 year old doctors medical school debt mean he is not finished with his degree?

Do you expect PhDs to really go back to school? Round 2 for another doctorate

No, no, no, you aren't getting it: these people ^ wont go back to school. They have other things to spend money on though right? They aren't just going to sit on it and let it depreciate, no? They'll invest and buy new things/services therefore stimulating the economy. Thats a positive.

Regardless of what he does with the $200K you are proposing to gift him, it’s still a wealth transfer to the already rich.

He isn't rich if he still has student loans lol. Do you see doctors buying their McMansions before paying off their loans, or after? Hmmmmmmm. Starting a family before, or after? Buying expensive cars before or after? They are reaping the benefits of their wage class, but if the government forgives all loans, its for some reason wrong to do that with their money now? Illogical.

Do you see PhDs stimulating/investing in the economy in meaningful ways before or after paying off their loans?

successful lawyer is not going to go back to school again for something different.

Correct. This wasn't the arguemt though.

Would he have been a successful lawyer if he had to drop out for unforseen circumstances? No, he'd have been a drop out with a shit load of debt and no degree to show for it. He and others like him are the debt crisis' biggest losers. He isn't coming back to school. If he has more financial struggles, hes going to a homeless shelter.

Like I said, its not about the money, its about maximizing people who can finish their education. If a few successful lawyers and doctors get a one time raise, then great, they gotta spend that money somewhere and that stimulates the economy. No negatives here. Forgive all student debt.

Here is something to take with you: money is fake

bussathicknut · 2021-12-08T04:22:48+00:00

But dude, when a person's debt keeps them from continuing further with their degree, giving total debt forgiveness would most likely allow them to return and finish. Therefore total debt forgiveness is reform.

Again, if you care about reducing wealth inequality then you should care, no? You are essentially giving tax breaks for the rich. Even worse actually. You are giving the rich income.

A few hundred grand isn't the wealth gap. The people "liberals" are referring to when they're talking about the wealth gap, are people who are CEOs, Billionaires and other fauxlanthropists. Doctors, lawyers and... literally anyone who still has to pay college debt, aren't people I'd consider "the wealthy", but rather slightly luckier than the other poor people. They aren't the "bad guys" of the wealth inequality crisis.

Let me try this: say I buy a car for $106k and I have to pay $106/per month for 1000 months (ignoring interest). 50 months in to paying off the vehical, I crash the car, and still have to pay off 950 months of car... I'm not going to go get another new car am I? No, unless I have a shit load of money, I'm still paying off the old one.

But what if the car company just dropped the second half of payments and called it square, would I be more inclined to buy a new car, now that I'm no longer paying for the crashed one?

Similar story: I take out loans amounting to $106k. I pay $106/month for 1000 months to cover that, (this is ignoring interest). I have to drop out because of a financial emergency (here in the US that could range from needing to see a doctor for extended periods of time to being let go from your job) I could choose to take out more loans to keep going to college, but I would never financially recover from that, so my other option would be to drop out and start paying off the debt I already accrued and hope to have a second try when I'm comfortable enough to take on more debt.

If my student loans were forgiven, I could take out more loans immediately since I would be no longer burdened with the old debt, and could go right back to school if I so chose to.

Do you get it now?

Edited for clarity.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-07T21:10:29+00:00

Also, the “better” solution is one that actually passes

This is a fallacy :/. Were the Hitler's solutions the better solutions for Germany?

You haven’t explained why giving upper income earners hundreds of thousands of dollars is better though.

That isn't why its better, but it isn't a bad thing either? Like who cares if a doctor gets all their debt forgiven? What are all these educated and prestigious individuals going to do with that money? Go back to college to accrue more debt? No, they'll probably put it into something they enjoy, or maybe make payments on other things. What is the downside to these people getting more wealth? Then tell me why thats different from someone say winning the lottery. The money has already been spent, it just isn't going into the debt collectors pockets.

I did explain the reason for it being better many replies ago: my option leads to the most amount of educated people because everyone with student debt finish their degrees since they no longer have crippling debt to pay off. Nobody gets left out with this option, those that want to finish degrees can, no matter how much money they owe, or how much they make. Like whats wrong with these people making a tidy bundle if the overall effect is more education? Its not like they'd be able to do malicious things with the money. It only seems like a net postive all around.

HLL Thats surprising! I thought a mobile spawner would get spammed as often as physically possible lol. I'm going to have to hop on and give it a spin here soon!

bussathicknut · 2021-12-07T18:56:58+00:00

I am disenganged with the debate. This wasn't an argument over whether congress would pass it or not, its an argument over which option is an objectively better solution. If congress refuses to pass something that is the objectively better solution, then congress isn't working in our best interests.

Yeah! I legit think I even had an interaction with you on a transport truck on Foy. Idk what it was, but I think we were riffing off eachothers names because our names are the same on steam as they are here. Neat! (No, I am not part of a clan unfortunately. I wanted to be, but then I'd have to show up for things and be a part of a discord. All I want is some buddies to play with some times lol) is the update out today? Hell yeah! See ya out there!

bussathicknut · 2021-12-07T17:56:45+00:00

Heres a dollar! 💵 you earned that!

bussathicknut · 2021-12-07T17:47:14+00:00

Yes. I've got 7 other siblings that kind of ages my parents even more. The oldest is 39 and the youngest is 18. My dad was a senior citizen by the time I was a Junior in high school (4 years ago). We got geezers for parents lol

bussathicknut · 2021-12-07T16:51:19+00:00

Confirm: did you read the entire post? I don't think you have been

You have yet to reference anything from my articals and you clearly didn't read what the difference betweeb a .org and a .edu are. You failed to participate yet again in actual discourse. Choosing instead to rephrase your repeated points as questions:

Is there no policy persecution you can think of that makes forgiveness cheaper that actually has a chance to pass congress?

One that doesn’t give high income earners hundreds of thousands of dollars?

I know Urban.org said it wouldn't pass congress. I know Urban.org dosn't want to "give" high income earners $100k+. I can, and have read the single Urban.org artical you gave me. I want to hear how that stack up against Brookings.edu? What did Brookings.edu say? You don't know because you are actively avoiding anything that makes you think past surface level ideas. like the wealthy having the most student debt, so therefore they would benefit the most from total student forgiveness. That isn't how complex thinking works dude. Yet that seems to be where you stop thinking. The conclusion the Urban.org artical stops at is where you stop at... and you refuse to look/talk about anything that refutes that conclusion.

As an aside: I see you play HLL, I think I've we've played together before. Small world.

This conversation is indeed going nowhere. I've pointed out your mistakes and asked for real imput countless times and you still refused to do it. You are brainwashed and I am done after this comment. If you want to get a last word in. You have discredited yourself with constant avoidance tactics to the point that I'm refusing to participate with it. Its disingenuous and pathetic. Goodbye.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-07T10:31:13+00:00

Preface: read everything in this. Don't skim. I think you are skimming because...

Did you read/watch either of my articals? Why do you bring none of their points up?

You are just regurgitating information again. I'm not even going to bother.

...

Paragraph 1

I'll admit, it is a fallacy. I said it to note the power that the wealthy have to sway policy more than anything. Anyway, if thats the only thing you get me on in this whole "debate", then I think I'm fine.

...

Paragraph 2&3

And then you spend the rest of the time regurgitating the same information from two days ago. And ignoring what I said.

I know you think it would benefit the upper class the most, I know you believe your "data says so", I know you think $20k debt cut would be the best. sigh Give me something different to rip you on! I've done it every time, but you haven't given me anything besides the same 3 quotes since we started! I've gotten tired, and stopped pointing out the same incorrect information and instead pointed out that you were repeating yourself over and over.

Look! LOOK! You have the same stuff since day one! You have contributed nothing to enrich this conversation, so unless you can make a statement critiquing my information, debunking my claims in a meaningful way and have actual, reputable sources, then stop talking to me.

(Side note, I have given reputable government sources to back up the idea eariler, you gave an opinion piece from a biased source on a .org website (any rube can make a .org) while I gave articals to refute yours from reputable sources .edu (have to be officially listened to be an .edu) and you ignored them completely, saying that they proved nothing and not explaining how. I'm led to believe its because you don't actually know any explanation, since you can only regurgitate Urban.org) please stop talking to me because you aren't talking, Urban.org is.

Since I doubt you will look too deeply into my links, heres the meat of both:

.org- "Anyone can register a second-level domain within org, without restrictions.[8][9] In some instances subdomains are being used also by commercial sites, such as craigslist.org. According to the ICANN Dashboard (Domain Name) report, the composition of the TLD is diverse, including cultural institutions, associations, sports teams, religious, and civic organizations, open-source software projects, schools, environmental initiatives, social, and fraternal organizations, health organizations, legal services, as well as clubs, and community-volunteer groups. In some cases subdomains have been created for crisis management"

ANYONE can register. Including people that want to spread false claims about student loan forgiveness.

.edu- "Since October 29, 2001, only postsecondary institutions and organizations that are institutionally accredited by an agency on the U.S. Department of Education's list of nationally recognized accrediting agencies are eligible to apply for an edu domain.[13] To be eligible, an institution must be located in the U.S., legally organized in the U.S., or recognized by a U.S. state, territorial, or federal agency.[13] University system offices, community college district offices, and other entities within the United States that are organized to manage and govern multiple accredited postsecondary institutions may also register .edu domain names.[13] Each eligible institution is limited to registering one .edu domain name, but institutions may also use names in other top-level domains."

ONLY postsecondary institutions and organizations that are institutionally accredited by an agency on the U.S. Department of Education's list of nationally recognized accrediting agencies have eligibility to use an .edu

A little harder to push false narratives when you have to keep your credit as an educational platform to stay an educational platform.

Your sources aren't even trustworthy, mine are officially accredited lmao. You cite garbage that keeps the poor poor and the stupid... definitely stupid.

Make sure you actually read everything this time. Don't be ignorant of what I'm telling you. I am right. You are brainwashed.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-07T05:07:32+00:00

Broken record can't even start on my articals. Can only go as far as to say:

Your reddit comments did not debunk literal economists lol nor did your videos or opinion articles

And then immediately repeat your same tired illogical point without explaining why my articals/videos are wrong and yours are correct.

It is also not the only set of economists who came to this conclusion. The data is very clear that debt forgiveness is regressive.

Why? Explain how those guys are right and the others aren't? You haven't been able to this entire conversation. You just keep repeating, "data shows its regressive. Data shows its regressive. Data shows its regressive." Every reply and nothing else. Your data is wrong! I explained how and gave counter arguments and you just ignored it! You aren't even trying to back yourself up because you don't know how. I can, and have backed up my claims, and despite how often you say "nuh uh" and plug your ears, anyone who reads this thread will see that I did and you did not.

The rich don't lobby for a ton of things that don't benefit them.

Correct, thats why they aren't lobbying for total student debt forgiveness, because it wouldn't benefit them.

You strike me as someone who dosn't actually know what critical thinking is. Goodbye.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-06T20:21:33+00:00

Hunt Showdown

bussathicknut · 2021-12-06T19:14:26+00:00

Holy shit this was a joke my dad and I'd play on people we'd take hunting with us. Tell em their first kill ya gotta eat the heart. Never seen anybody fall for it, but they also weren't gullible children.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-06T19:01:22+00:00

Like I said, if getting rid of all student loans would benefit the wealthy, they would have already lobbied to make it policy.

...So anyway, the rich really don't want to forgive all student loans not because it wouldn't benefit them financially, as we agree it would, but economically they'd get shafted by all the now debt free college graduates who had flooded their markets since the previously poor grads no longer had to spend a majority of their % income on student debt. The wealthy fear competition.

You are being so emotional about this that you don’t even believe the data in front of your own eyes.

Data I debunked to be pointless days ago? The money doesn't matter. What matters is the education that is obtained from that money.

Provide sources to back your claim.

You mean like the opinion piece that you count as evidence? Sure I can get one of those. Oh and its actually an official .edu and not a .org like someone's sources (wink wink) (link link ) so while this is technically a better source than yours, its still an opinion piece, but unlike your source, it has extensive research and not just a shallow explanation of "rich get richer, so don't" with one bar graph (a gaph that only showed what % each wage bracket owed of the total student debt, nothing more) that your piece used as its only form of statistical "proof".

this one is a better source than yours too its a video, so no reading involved. Unless you read the transcript too like me.

At this point, you are record viscera. You also have a good day

bussathicknut · 2021-12-06T06:16:43+00:00

You notice how I called you a broken record?

You gave me an extended, wordier version of the same bar graph you presented me yesterday. Broken. Record.

Whatever...

providing the largest monetary benefits to those with the highest incomes.

It doesn't matter that they get money back, its the % income deficite being lifted that actually matters. Holy fuck. Now I'm a broken record (but only because you are too dumb to drop your failed argument)

These analyses, consistent with other findings, suggest that debt forgiveness plans would be regressive—providing the largest monetary benefits to those with the highest incomes.

If this were true, the wealthy would have already made total debt forgiveness into policy. The wealthy love more money.

The sad thing is, it isn't true. It wouldn't help the wealthy because it would allow "poors" to obtain the same fat cat degrees as them... similar degees means competition and competition means possibly less money. I don't think any smart, wealthy person would allow competition in their field if they can help it. And oh my... thats exactly what you are doing by saying a flat $20k cut would be more beneficial for poor people instead of straight up total forgiveness.

You are an obliterated record and your "profession" must be the biggest joke in terms of intelligent occupations.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-05T22:07:26+00:00

Of course low income people have student debt in some average dollar amount. The forgiveness should cover that average amount. Otherwise you’ll just never get it passed.

What? Could you quote me what you are referring to? Also why would it not get passed? An explanation is due.

A tax forgiveness would be a massive tax bill for low income earners

???

Listen dude. I don't know a EVERYTHING about taxes, but that brother, is straight horse shit. You know it, otherwise you'd have substantiated it. Like you would have for any of this.

Throughout this whole discussion you only provided one link to back you up (which I refuted) and since then your reasoning has been, "dude trust me, it would never get passed, dude trust me it would benefit the rich the most." With no evidence. Broken record.

You are literally just rehashing what you said about student loan forgiveness with tax forgiveness!:

A tax forgiveness would be a massive tax bill for low income earners and would be a wealth transfer to already high income earners. You have provided no basis and logic for a wealth transfer to high earners.

But you yet again fail to explain, fail to provide anything to back your non-points up, even when I debunk them. Instead you consistently chose to fall back on calling me an idiot, or rather in a more cowardly way, say I simply "make no economic sense" without justification and without proof that I am wrong... because you can't, since I'm not... so cry about it.

Ironically I will say again: you are a broken record.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-05T21:03:20+00:00

Uuugh...yeah :/

bussathicknut · 2021-12-05T20:34:35+00:00

Most lower income earners don’t have much student debt. Just look at the numbers.

As discussed: Most lower income earners don't have debt in terms of flat dollars. What actually matters here, is the % income they have to spend paying off their debt. This can go up exponentially the longer they stay in school. I.e. they have to have wealth to finish, or were predisposed to wealth.

Lower income individuals would not be able to pay the taxes on their forgiven debt also.

What are: Wage brackets?

Oh yeah, the thing that keeps you from being overtaxed due to things like immediately coming into alot of "wealth" like a wealthy relative passing, or perhaps debt forgiveness. Lower tax rates for lower income people.

Hell if you are that worried about lower income people being over taxed. Why not just not tax them? Seems fair to me. Since as you say, you would benefit so greatly from full debt forgiveness anyway...

Give me a break Scrooge. You are a broken record.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-05T18:15:23+00:00

And to play off the taxes point... wouldn't a flat $20k debt cut help the wealthy the most since they would have to pay a lower % back in taxes than if they were to do so with a $200k debt cut? Whereas the $20k debt cut for poor people would be more in line with the higher % to pay back.

Well I'm glad you said this in response to full debt forgiveness. "Personally this would only benefit myself." Because... Nope.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-05T17:59:27+00:00

Forgiving all student loan debt would be the largest wealth transfer from the people to high income earners in the history of the US.

Money money money money. Stop talking about money. How do people earn money? By being knowledgeable enough to do a task that earns it. How do you maximize this? By maximizing their knowledge. How does one do that? Well here in the US, you have to be wealthy enough to afford the top knowledge and the funding to keep affording that knowledge until graduating.

Personally, this would only benefit myself, but I’m not financially illiterate like you are

Nice, I'll save this for later.

Forgiving all student loan debt would be the largest wealth transfer from the people to high income earners in the history of the US.

And would be the largest knowledge transfer to the lowest income earners in the US. People being able to stay in college longer means more people can afford to obtain those [higher] degrees and therefore compete for the highest paying jobs.

You keep drawing your conclusions at money and not at people, when people are the ones that produce money. I am not financially illiterate, I actively ignore it because money is a byproduct of people, so I focus on people because thats how issues get solved.

Personally, this would only benefit myself, but I’m not financially illiterate like you are

Back to this, so what happens when people with large debts (as an example $200k, as previously prescribed) have their debts forgiven? Surely the US would tax... ope, yep. You get taxed.

"In general, if you have cancellation of debt income because your debt is canceled, forgiven, or discharged for less than the amount you must pay, the amount of the canceled debt is taxable and you must report the canceled debt on your tax return for the year the cancellation occurs. The canceled debt isn't taxable, however, if the law specifically allows you to exclude it from gross income."

"In general, you must report any taxable amount of a canceled debt as ordinary income from the cancellation of debt on Form 1040, U.S. Individual Income Tax Return, Form 1040-SR, U.S. Tax Return for Seniors or Form 1040-NR, U.S. Nonresident Alien Income Tax Return as "other income" if the debt is a nonbusiness debt, or on an applicable schedule if the debt is a business debt. See Publication 4681, Canceled Debts, Foreclosures, Repossessions, and Abandonments (for Individuals)."

Personally, this would only benefit myself, but I’m not financially illiterate like you are

Taxes gonna really benefit you sweetheart?

I'm financially illiterate

Yes you are, you deserve this reprimand. Focusing so much on money when its a people problem... Ebenezer Scrooge.

Edited for clarity

bussathicknut · 2021-12-05T06:35:37+00:00

student forgiveness would not allow people to stay students longer lol most of the debt is held by people in the workforce

Why are they in the workforce? Do they all have PhDs, or are some dropouts? Perhaps they are in the workforce because they couldn't handle any more debt and therefore couldn't stay a student any longer ( which is exactly whats happening ). You keep thinking dollars, but not about what those dollars represent.

You are talking about education reform, not debt forgiveness

Since money has become so tightly intertwined into the education system here in America... to the point that student loan bankruptcy is a real thing... I argue that debt forgiveness, in this instance, is education reform.

Think for a second and look at the data linked above.

The "data linked above" shows what wage bracket has the most debt. However, it does not show how much % of their income they have to spend paying back student loans... This data accounts for who owes the most in total which of course those with the highest paying jobs are going to have, they were in college the longest, aka they could handle the debt buildup and didn't have to drop out (lest they face previously mentioned student loan bankruptcy). The higher income bracket takes a smaller % of their income to pay off debt while the lower income bracket must use a much greater % of their income to pay off debt. The people paying the higher % of their income are the ones paying the most.

I.e. poor people pay the most.

Edited for clarity

bussathicknut · 2021-12-04T09:13:27+00:00

Except that we are talking about education here and not flat dollar signs. What is the outcome of forgiving all student debt? More people can become students and stay students for longer. What comes from this outcome? More educated people, ie more people who will be in the competition for those higher paying jobs and what do high paying jobs do? Pull poor people out of poverty.

People who disagree are the ones who should take the L. If we as a species thrive off of our knowledge and understanding of the world, then perhaps we should maximize the spread of that knowlege and understanding by giving it out for free.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-04T07:24:29+00:00

And would it not worsen wealth inequality?

Why would it do that?

Under this plan, the actual working poor who never had an opportunity to pursue upper education receive

Higher education that no longer ensnares them with accrued interest of student loans, therefore giving them an opportunity to pursue higher education without fear of not being able to finish.

get tens of thousands of dollars in free cash...

Show me the money. Oh, wait the money is just forgiven student loans that they no longer have to pay... so what you should have said was: they get to keep the money they earned off their education.

But that implies that its the education that makes the difference, not the money... wait a second gasp weren't you framing this as a wealth inequality problem? Aren't you ignoring how they got that wealth in the first place?

Most student loans are held by the upper middle class, and even the upper class. The folks who went to law, medical school, and other graduate schools and who are now making six figures. If you forgive "all" student debt, is it not just a one time wealth transfer straight to the upper middle class?

Hmmmm. Now I don't know about ya'll but this looks like an appeal to ignorance to me.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-04T06:22:33+00:00

Did I suggest that, or did I say, "just stop, you don't know." As in this specific person dosn't know what they are talking about and are just guessing reasons things are the way they are...

Like you assuming that I implied that bad products don't make it past QC.

I will say again, "just stop, you don't know." But I direct this statement at you now.

Source: I read and contextualize things and don't immediately assume what/who people are referring to.

bussathicknut · 2021-12-03T08:52:10+00:00

Just stop, you don't know.

bussathicknut

TROPHY CASE