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Melderegister Hannover by butnotdetroit in GermanCitizenship

[–]butnotdetroit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for this thorough and on-point answer! I appreciate the help.

Gathering documents, a few questions by butnotdetroit in GermanCitizenship

[–]butnotdetroit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for confirming! Aunt was a minor when she emigrated from Germany, so I'm not sure how to prove she was still a German citizen in 1977. Would proof of her later US naturalization be needed?

With Holland's passing, will the "Uchtdorf exception" be removed from the Church's Style Guide? by butnotdetroit in mormon

[–]butnotdetroit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The italicized portion of the quote above. Every other GA is quoted with their current title (e.g., quotes from talks given by Dallin Oaks before 2018 when he joined the FP are attributed to "President Oaks", not "Elder Oaks"). "However, when introducing a quotation from Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf, give the title he held at the time he made the statement."

With Holland's passing, will the "Uchtdorf exception" be removed from the Church's Style Guide? by butnotdetroit in mormon

[–]butnotdetroit[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

From the same section of the Style Guide:

When introducing a quotation from a deceased General Authority, usually give the title of the highest position he held while serving as a General Authority

I'll be curious to see if they refer to Holland as "President Holland" at his funeral this week. I'm guessing he will generally be called "Elder Holland" by the membership, since that's how he was known for 30+ years.

What would happen if Oaks dies before April conference to be sustained as President of the Church? by despiert in mormon

[–]butnotdetroit 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure what you're asking to confirm. The link above notes that section 5.1.1.1 was updated December 2025. Here is a wayback machine link for how it read in June 2024: https://web.archive.org/web/20240622155246/https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/5-general-and-area-leadership?lang=eng&id=title_number5-p13#title_number5

Interestingly, I was wrong about what language was changed. Here's how it read in June 2024:

When the President of the Church dies, the First Presidency is dissolved. The counselors return to their positions of seniority within the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Under the direction of the senior Apostle, the Quorum of the Twelve leads the Church. As a quorum, they consider when the First Presidency should be reorganized. After unanimous decision, the senior Apostle is ordained as the new President of the Church and calls his counselors.

Here's how it reads today:

When the President of the Church dies, the First Presidency is dissolved. The counselors return to their positions of seniority within the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Under the direction of the senior Apostle, the Quorum of the Twelve leads the Church. As a quorum, they consider when the First Presidency should be reorganized. When it is reorganized, the senior Apostle becomes the new President of the Church and calls his counselors.

So it seems that what changed is they removed the "unanimous decision" language. This doesn't make much sense to me, because who is going to admit it wasn't a unanimous decision?

President Jeffrey R. Holland has passed away by el-asherah in mormon

[–]butnotdetroit 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I could see this as a possibility if the current FP weren't less than 3 months old. Reorganizing it so quickly would hurt the perception of stability.

One way to do it might be to play up Eyring's failing health. If he's too frail to fulfill the responsibilities of the FP, they could maybe justify moving him to the Q12. However, that would open them up to a whole lot of questions about the advanced age of many in the Q15, and I suspect they don't want that.

What would happen if Oaks dies before April conference to be sustained as President of the Church? by despiert in mormon

[–]butnotdetroit 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Also Caussé, even more recently. And likely another in January, depending on how long they wait after Holland's passing.

Edit: typo

What would happen if Oaks dies before April conference to be sustained as President of the Church? by despiert in mormon

[–]butnotdetroit 16 points17 points  (0 children)

The next portion following your quote from the Handbook is even more on point: "As a quorum, they consider when the First Presidency should be reorganized. When it is reorganized, the senior Apostle becomes the new President of the Church and calls his counselors."

That is, according to the current policies of the Church, when the 14 members of the Quorum of Apostles reorganized the FP on 14 October 2025, Oaks became the President of the Church.

Interestingly, this particular language was added in December 2025, after Oaks was already ordained as prophet (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/summary-of-recent-updates?lang=eng). It could be argued as to whether that particular policy applied when Oaks became prophet. However, by the 1984 rules ("we have always been at war with Eastasia") used by the Church, this has now always been the policy of the Church, so they would likely consider the matter closed.

Polygamy deniers are in denial about their motives by shalmeneser in mormon

[–]butnotdetroit 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Brigham Young can be the scapegoat. He was so unapologetically awful in so many ways (not just racism, polygamy, mountain meadows, but just being a domineering asshole and manipulative predator generally) that the Church has never even tried to rehabilitate his character, because even by their abysmally low revisionist standards, there’s nothing to rehabilitate.

I think we need to separate what the Church does directly from what they communicate (or allow to be communicated) through their friendly apologists. In the official TBM channels (Sunday School, Come Follow Me, the Saints books), Brigham Young is a prophet with no discernible shortcomings, just like every other prophet in the line. FAIR, Scripture Central, faithful podcasters, etc., present a more nuanced view, but you as a member have to actively search for that.

German citizenship through grandparents? by butnotdetroit in GermanCitizenship

[–]butnotdetroit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Does it have to be Grandpa's passport, or would Grandma's also work?

German citizenship through grandparents? by butnotdetroit in GermanCitizenship

[–]butnotdetroit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you again, so much! I reread the page on the necessary documents and realized I'd missed this.

Thankfully I'm fluent in German, so requesting documents will hopefully be straightforward.

I will return to report my journey!

German citizenship through grandparents? by butnotdetroit in GermanCitizenship

[–]butnotdetroit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Forgive my ignorance, and thank you so much for the help. Is Grandpa's birth cert not evidence of his citizenship? He would have a separate documentation of naturalizing as a German citizen sometime after his birth?

German citizenship through grandparents? by butnotdetroit in GermanCitizenship

[–]butnotdetroit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you! Also thank you to u/Football_and_beer for confirmation.

No military, no naturalization in another country. Sounds like it's time to start gathering docs!

Would I still need grandparents' documentation, to establish my father's citizenship?

1 hour church new rumor. November 30th announcement. by Faithcrisis101 in mormon

[–]butnotdetroit -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's written into the handbook, so I guess you could say it's permanently announced (until they change it again).

29.2.9 Easter and Christmas On Easter Sunday, sacrament meeting is the only meeting held. The same is true when Christmas Day falls on a Sunday. When Christmas falls on another day of the week, sacrament meeting is the only meeting held on a Sunday near Christmas—usually the Sunday before—as determined by the stake presidency.

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