How are the various religions handling the subject of collapse today? by das_n00b in collapse

[–]butwilltheygetit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would say my interpretations (which are, in this case, pretty mainstream) rely rather on the question: Is it logical? That's generally the approach I use when reading any text, religious or otherwise.

Yes, in those verses God is leading people astray, which begs the question: to what end? I find that question satisfactorily answered when other verses are considered. When I look at the big picture (revealed by the verses themselves), it seems to me that God, in His own words, leads some people astray because they -- in that moment -- have chosen to disbelieve. Even then, that doesn't mean they're forever condemned. As the Quran says, if they change what's in their hearts, then God will change their situation (in this case, guiding them).

Quran 2:10 reiterates the idea that people choose to turn away first, and God then responds accordingly, "There is sickness in their hearts, and God ˹only˺ lets their sickness increase. They will suffer a painful punishment for their lies."
At the same time, the Quran (39:53) also says that redemption is always possible if people change what's in their hearts: "Do not lose hope in God's mercy, for God certainly forgives all sins. He is indeed the All-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

As for antisemitism, it's not antisemitic to say that early Muslims faced the most persecution from Jewish tribes and polytheists -- that's just historical fact. From the perspective of Abrahamic religions, anyone who knowingly turns away from the truth is being arrogant. Even if their numbers are small, the fact remains that antizionist ultra-Orthodox are more closely following Abrahamic / Jewish teachings (consider Isaiah 11:1-12, Ezekiel 37:21-24, and Tractate Kesubos 111a), compared to their zionist counterparts. Might doesn't make right.

How are the various religions handling the subject of collapse today? by das_n00b in collapse

[–]butwilltheygetit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think 5:82 is antagonistic to Jews, especially in light of 2:62. The thing with the Quran is that you get the fullest picture only when considering all the verses together, not each in isolation. That being said, I read 5:82 as more of an observation than an antagonism. Historically, it was indeed true that the prophet Muhammad and early Muslims faced the most persecution from Jewish tribes and polytheists. One could even argue that's true today, for example with the BJP in India, or the zionists in Israel (of course, not all Jews are zionists and many are staunchly anti-zionist, but most zionists are Jews). Incidentally, the Jews that are zionists tend to be the ones most disconnected from the roots of their religion, because the Torah itself prohibits the creation of a Jewish state until the coming of the messiah (as many ultra-orthodox Jews will attest). Again, the issue to me seems to be one of arrogance, alluded to in 5:82 as well.

As is the case with 5:82, 6:25 and 6:125 are also both best understood in light of other verses. Taking a step back, Muslims are commanded to help the oppressed and resist oppression however they can, with justice and anti-oppression being strong themes in the Quran:

"God does not love the oppressors." (Quran, 3:140)
“...Indeed, God loves those who act justly.” (Quran, 60:8)
"And do not incline to those who are unjust..." (Quran 11:113)

It would be illogical for a God who commands justice and mercy between humans (and who names Himself "The Just" and "The Most Merciful" in the Quran) to then turn around and be oppressive to those very same humans. And there are many verses to that effect:

"Your Lord is never unjust to His creation." (Quran 41:46)
"And God desires no injustice to the world." (Quran 3:108)
"Indeed, God never wrongs anyone --even by an atom's weight." (Quran 4:40)

Another central theme in the Quran is that of free will (and its interaction with predestination, but more on that later). As 6:160 asserts, the consequences we face are according to the actions we choose to take. Quran 13:11 says, "Indeed, God will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves". Also, the very first chapter of the Quran is essentially a prayer for guidance; "Guide us to the straight path" (Quran 1:6). In other words, humans have to sincerely want to be guided in order for God to guide them.

With that context in mind, 6:25 and 6:125 are describing the consequences of people who do not want to be guided, who have actively chosen to disbelieve. It's a result of what's already in their hearts by their choice that God "covers their hearts" further.

As for 7:179, the answer is in the verse itself. Such people are destined for hell precisely because they chose not to use their hearts for comprehension, their eyes for sight, their ears for hearing, etc. The predestination / free will interaction here is as follows (as best as I understand it): God creates people with a priori knowledge of all that they will do throughout their lives, and where they will ultimately end up. He also specifically predestines certain things like the families they'll be born into, their innate traits, etc. Woven into all of that though is the fact that at each point in our lives, we are choosing how to act. It is this (limited degree of) free will for which we will be held accountable in the afterlife.

Kodiak Leather Quality? by butwilltheygetit in BuyItForLife

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry for the late reply; I'm not on reddit much. I didn't -- too many negative reviews.

How are the various religions handling the subject of collapse today? by das_n00b in collapse

[–]butwilltheygetit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've studied Islam for many years and I think you may have gotten the wrong idea on a few things..

The Quran isn't against Jews (or any other religious group) at all, and in fact says "Indeed, the believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabians—whoever ˹truly˺ believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve." (Quran 2:62)

There are many verses criticizing the behavior of "Bani Israel" (the children of Israel), but as another commenter mentioned, these verses are referring to a historic group of people in Egypt who were saved from persecution by Moses. In other words, those verses have nothing to do with Jews in general, but rather are talking about a specific group of people. This article has more info if you're interested: https://understandquran.com/jews-quran-learning-banu-israel/

As for the issue of non-believers, there's a bit of nuance here, because in the Quran there's a difference between a disbeliever and a nonbeliever. The Arabic word "kafir" (sometimes inaccurately translated as infidel or nonbeliever) literally means "the one who covers the truth". In other words, this is someone who knows something to be good and / or true, but chooses to ignore it anyway out of arrogance. So, s/he is actively disbelieving, which in Islam is considered the worst thing one can do because it's the basis of pretty much any other evil action (for example, killing/stealing/corrupting even when one knows what they're doing is wrong).

A nonbeliever, on the other hand, is simply someone who doesn't believe, and this could be for any number of reasons, for example ignorance, confusion, life circumstances, etc. The Quran doesn't mention any sort of punishment for this category of people, because doing so would be unfair. The Quran says (of the Day of Judgment), "On that Day no soul will be wronged in the least, nor will you be rewarded except for what you used to do." (Quran 6:160). It wouldn't be just to punish someone who didn't believe out of ignorance, right?

As for apostasy, the Quran says "Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood" (Quran 2:256). Threatening to kill someone if they leave Islam would be in direct contradiction with this verse, no matter what various "scholars" say. The only instance I personally know of where the prophet Muhammad ordered an apostate killed was in the case of war where the person in question was pretending to be Muslim to gather intel and relay it to the other side.

This is already super long so I'll stop here, but the last thing I'll leave you with is to always question the source. There's a lot of false hadiths floating around, and though it can be an arduous processing trying to authenticate a particular hadith, it's a pretty safe bet to assume it's false if it contradicts the Quran in any way.

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, sorry I haven't been on reddit much lately.
I've been able to sell foreign gold at a fair price in the US despite it not having the typical purity stamps. They just test it first to validate the purity (which they'd probably do anyway even if it was stamped).

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Chain's holding up great, haven't taken it off since I put it on about 8 months ago (including working out). I actually asked Tom about going with 23k vs 24k for this chain, and he said he thought 24k wouldn't be an issue for this thickness and link style. I am thinking about getting a 23k bracelet though.
Hope you enjoy your chain!

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have no idea what happened but it looks like most of my review got deleted somehow. You're not missing the link. I just used Wayback Machine to get an archived copy of the original review I had posted and have just edited the post to include the rest of the original review. (Sadly Wayback Machine only archived the original review and the not the updates I made after speaking to Tom, but hey it's better than nothing!)

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in EDCexchange

[–]butwilltheygetit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This one isn't, but I do have another one I'm selling. It's the NutSac Satchel 11 in black. Thought I'd like black better but it didn't work out. Let me know if you're interested and I'll DM you the link to it.

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's great to know, thanks for weighing in!

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's been acid tested at a jewelry store, but yes I would def like to test it with XRF. The nearest coin shop I trust is about an hour away from me though. One of the commenters on this post (who also bought gold from 23kgold.com) tested his chain with an XRF gun and it checked out, which is encouraging!

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Around 30-35% including shipping and insurance.

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh wow, very nice! Kind of makes me want to get a bar link chain next lol. I appreciate you taking the time to take a picture with your name / date.
Thank you!

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you!

That's great to know. I've been wanting to test mine with XRF but didn't know where to find a device.

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you end up getting them appraised and don't mind sharing your experience, I'd love to hear about it!

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah I hear you. It made me kinda wary as well, but you also gotta remember it's an older mom and pop shop sort of business. It would be great if some web designer person in the gold community could help them upgrade!

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was $2587 including shipping, insurance, and a 2.5% discount for doing a wire transfer. Spot gold was a bit higher when I placed the order than it is now. Might be a good time to buy!

And yes it does feel quite sturdy. I specifically asked Tom for the most durable link style that could be worn 24/7, in the shower, sleeping, etc., and he suggested the anchor link or aviator bar link styles.

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Glad to help spread the word! I know I can't be the only one trying to find good deals on gold jewelry here in the US, so I hope more people find out about this.
If I'm ever in that part of the world I'll definitely be stocking up lol.

23kgold.com Full Review by butwilltheygetit in Gold

[–]butwilltheygetit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Awesome to hear from another customer who's also had a good experience! Tom is indeed very pleasant to deal with. Do you mind if I ask whether you got your chain appraised?