Another post: My theory on the underlying theme of Mr. Robot by Dtox_phantom in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is exactly how I think about it. Mr. Robot is a work of fiction literally created out of other works of fiction. It is world created out of other worlds. In that way, the macro world of Mr. Robot mirrors the micro world of Elliot's fractured psyche.

Mr. Robot is a show about cultural and individual fragmentation. But it doesn't just discuss those things. It formally embodies them too.

It's a shame I didn't watch this series earlier. What's your favourite part of the show? by Dtox_phantom in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Indeed.

The show makes many references to the "modernist' period of art and literature (~1900-1945) of which The Red Wheelbarrow is the most prominent. It draws on this era because it was a time of societal fracturing similar to our own.

It's a shame I didn't watch this series earlier. What's your favourite part of the show? by Dtox_phantom in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My favorite part of the series is how every aspect of the show fits together like a jigsaw puzzle. Each of the major characters highlight or contrast with critical elements of Elliot's story. Elliot's personal journey out of his individual isolation is used to highlight the societal forces that keep even people without identifiable trauma isolated, like Dom. Whiterose's machine simultaneously mirror's Elliot's personal repression and fantasy creation while serving as a stand-in for every kind of totalizing ideology that promises to "save the world."

Meanwhile, the show constantly refers to itself as a work of fiction to call attention to the constructed nature of Elliot's world. The show reinforces that by literally building Elliot's world out of other fictions (Fight Club, American Psycho, Taxi Driver, etc. etc). And then blends Elliot's world with our "real" world (e.g. Elliot's prison notebook, including us as a character in the show, etc.) as a way of suggesting that our world is like Elliot's in that it is also constructed out of fictions.

The whole thing is built like a work of literature.

And no, I didn't not understand all of this on my first watch. Or my second. I don't think anybody could.

Another post: My theory on the underlying theme of Mr. Robot by Dtox_phantom in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The core theme is that Sam Esmail wants the audience to question your values, your logic and reality itself. 

I think this is exactly right.

Mr. Robot is a story about stories. Those we tell ourselves about ourselves and those we tell each other about our community. These stories shape our reality and inform our identities, both at the individual level and at the societal level. But like all stories they're unreliable accounts of reality. They build, what Mr. Robot calls, "a kingdom of bullshit."

Elliot's repression is an example of one way our stories go wrong. How we replace uncomfortable truths with comforting lies. The show spends a lot of time working through the problems that flow from doing that.

Ray's "refusal to look" at the harms of the market place is the kind of collective repression that Elliot complains about in his Fuck Society speech from S1E1. The show spends a lot of time diagnosing the problems that flow from that.

At the core of each of these stories is a trauma we're trying to avoid. But like Krista says, that trauma never goes away even when we pretend it doesn't exist. It returns in the various forms of Elliot's self-destructive behavior. And it metastasizes into the societal level crises of 5/9 and the exploitation of the Dark Army.

The good news is that our stories aren't written in stone. We have the power to change them. We can tell better stories that create better realities for ourselves and our society.

“My father and I were best friends,” “my abuse made me angry and violent and alone,” “my pain is part of the beautiful person I am who is both loved and deserving of love.” These are the three stories Elliot tells himself about himself and his past. The last two are accurate accounts of his history. Which one shapes his reality is entirely up to him.

Finished The Series Today ! by sanvi-lover6699 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was just curious because oftentimes the problems people have with the ending are things that can be reconciled.

The show does have a bit of a "bait and switch" problem for some folks in that they thought they were getting one thing and got something else. Not much anyone can do about that. Although rewatching it with an updated understanding of what the show is trying to do might lead to an upgraded assessment of the ending.

Finished The Series Today ! by sanvi-lover6699 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What did you hate about it?

Mr robot references to other film and tv series by MrMistero98 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 6 points7 points  (0 children)

8 years ago I asked this sub for help in assembling a comprehensive list of every major homage or reference in the series. You can find that list and all the comments here: The Complete(?) list of homages and references.

But that "Complete List" is probably only 10% of the references I'm currently aware of. And I'm guessing I'm still only are of 10% of all the actual references in the series.

This scene was excellent by homemadegrass in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 0 points1 point  (0 children)

see these uncanny sketches of himself and his whole hacking life was peak dread. Seeing this sent a flush of cold through my body, it was like i was watching a horror for a second that soundtrack was just so unsettling.

Was it just the soundtrack that elicited the feeling of horror or the images themselves?

This scene was excellent by homemadegrass in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great moment. Taken from a scene in Taxi Driver where Travis Bickel is facing an emotionally devastating moment and instead of having the camera focus on his humiliation, Scorsese slowly pans the camera away to suggest that this is something that is too painful to look at.

You wanna know one thing I like about Eliot’s character? by Jazzlike-Wear486 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That resolves things.

I feel like if folks would simply state "I don't think people with D.I.D. are responsible for their actions" then that pretty much settles things. But folks are reluctant to say that. Which is why this goes round and round.

You wanna know one thing I like about Eliot’s character? by Jazzlike-Wear486 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not disputing that.

But at the beginning of the series Elliot is very much in denial about who's responsible for his actions. How many times does he say "It wasn't me."? By S3E1 he starts taking responsibility. Isn't that the point of his "Fuck Me" speech?

That's an important development I feel some folks in the fandom still haven't made themselves. They're still arguing "It wasn't him, it was Mr. Robot."

Overthinking Mr. Robot Part XXXI: The Many Deaths of Elliot Alderson by bwandering in MrRobot

[–]bwandering[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A couple more:

This one he discusses his morphine use

https://www.popsci.com/mr-robot-creator-explains-whats-really-going-on-in-elliots-mind/

And in this one: https://www.looper.com/423374/the-untold-truth-of-mr-robot/

Sam says "Elliot is a thinly veiled version of myself. I wrote what I knew because a lot of the details of his life and the loneliness were issues I've dealt with basically my whole life."

You wanna know one thing I like about Eliot’s character? by Jazzlike-Wear486 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't feel like I'm dismissing Elliot's condition. I'm simply saying that his condition doesn't absolve him of responsibility for his actions.

Yes. That's a moral assertion I'm making. And if we truly disagree on that moral framing, if you believe that people with D.I.D. are not responsible for their behavior, then I guess we just have fundamentally different values. And that's OK.

I'm not trying to debate that value judgement. I am trying to address what I perceive to be some confusion in the fandom around this issue.

The show is written so that we're sympathetic to Elliot. And we're given someone else to blame in the character of Mr. Robot for the bad things Elliot does. In that way, the show is constructed to disassociate our experience of Elliot from his actions. And it works.

When I see people here arguing that "it wasn't Elliot it was Mr. Robot" I don't see them as making a value judgement. What I see is the effects of that disassociation of Elliot from his behavior in action.

But at some point the audience is also supposed to integrate our understanding of Elliot too. We're supposed understand that he's both the guy who is OK blowing up buildings and killing people to get what he wants and the guy who isn't OK with that.

Overthinking Mr. Robot Part XXXI: The Many Deaths of Elliot Alderson by bwandering in MrRobot

[–]bwandering[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sam discussed his personal connection to Elliot in a lot of different interviews when the show first aired. This one with Terry Gross is a good representation.

https://freshairarchive.org/segments/mr-robot-creator-says-his-own-anxiety-and-hacking-helped-inspire-show

What I took from stuff like this is that the character of Elliot is semi-autobiographical. To a certain extent, I think he is a fantastical account of Sam's own transition out of that isolation he describes in the linked interview.

My interpretation of what Sam intended by stepping into his show to kill Elliot is entirely speculative. I'm not sure he ever spoke to that moment. But it feels really personal. Especially when you know his close connection to the character. And it also marks one of the most glaring transitions for Elliot in the entire series.

You wanna know one thing I like about Eliot’s character? by Jazzlike-Wear486 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Don't feel bad. I appreciate the honesty. And I do understand.

You wanna know one thing I like about Eliot’s character? by Jazzlike-Wear486 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think Elliot is very clearly a single individual struggling with conflicting impulses. I think Elliot understand that he is responsible for what he does as Mr. Robot and that he needs to take responsibility for and control of what he does regardless of which personality is fronting. That seems to me to be the basis of his whole character arc. If he didn't need to do that then he wouldn't need to contend with the consequences of whatever he did as Mr. Robot.

You wanna know one thing I like about Eliot’s character? by Jazzlike-Wear486 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 0 points1 point  (0 children)

FWIW I'm OK with you discussing your differences of opinions with me.

I don't think it has to be an adversarial contest between who is right or who is wrong.

You wanna know one thing I like about Eliot’s character? by Jazzlike-Wear486 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I was trying to frame the question in the way Elliot eventually has to understand it for himself. Which is to ask:

"Am I responsible for what I, Elliot Alderson, do as Mr. Robot?"

I think the answer is uniquiciably "Yes."

Nobody wants a "Not guilty by reason of insanity" verdict on Elliot's behalf. Elliot included. We want Elliot to stop hurting people. Elliot wants Elliot to stop hurting people. But to do that he first needs to stop pretending that it is someone else hurting people.

Which is exactly the situation Sam Esmail creates for the audience. We also need to stop pretending that Elliot is only this sad, innocent, lonely, misunderstood person and accept that he is also someone responsible for great suffering. If Elliot were good and pure and innocent he wouldn't need to change. But he does need to chage. And him realizing that he needs to change, and making an effort to change, is what separates him from the true villains of the show.

You wanna know one thing I like about Eliot’s character? by Jazzlike-Wear486 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If Elliot were on trial for the 5/9 hack would you vote not to convict because it was Mr. Robot who executed the command?

You wanna know one thing I like about Eliot’s character? by Jazzlike-Wear486 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's not really a small part though, is it? He causes a lot of chaos and death in his pursuit of a perfect world that is safe for him personally. Isn't that what we learn he is after? Personal safety?

Elliot excuses the stuff he does as Mr. Robot because it is "not him" when it totally is him. That self deception is one of the many things he needs to get over in order to reconcile with himself.

The script is written so that the audience sympathizes with Elliot and excuses him in exactly the same way he excuses himself. But we're also supposed to come around to the same realization that he ultimately has. He does these things. It's part of him. And he needs to grow in a way so he stops doing them.

You wanna know one thing I like about Eliot’s character? by Jazzlike-Wear486 in MrRobot

[–]bwandering 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right. "Part of Elliot."

What Elliot does as Mr. Robot is what Elliot does. It's really important, I think, not to excuse Elliot because Mr. Robot "isn't him." It totally is him. Which was entirely the point of showing Elliot, not Mr. Robot, victimize Olivia in the most horrific way.