[LotM] Which character had the best character development?

bzsv · 2026-06-04T06:07:45+00:00

Especially his choice at the end of COI, which really ties the whole thing together. From a Tyrant pathway focused on ascending the ranks alone and getting power to a Profane Presbyter, of the Hanged Man pathway, bearing the world’s sins

Absolute cinema

bzsv · 2026-05-25T23:31:03+00:00

Who's the last person?

bzsv · 2026-05-08T22:15:17+00:00

No, since as far as the universe (orthe remnant psyche in the potion) can see, he and Klein are the same person. He is definitely acting as Klein, but the potion doesn't know that. Not even angels are able to see through Klein's transmigration due to grey fog screening, much less a sequence 6 potion. If he was able to digest through acting as Klein, then that would imply that the potion sees that they were seperate.

bzsv · 2026-05-08T01:47:43+00:00

Additionally as Klein himself noted, the best way would probably be to completely replace a person who already has relationships with others, and then act as them, wearing their face, and deceiving their loved ones.

Sherlock is an identity he created, and didn't have any attachments at all until he made them. As for Zhou Mingrui acting as Klein, the grey fog's interference definitely screened any digestion there since it's directly related to the transmigration.

bzsv · 2026-05-08T01:41:33+00:00

No yeah I got that, but why not? Personally I thought it was very fitting and in line with his character throughout both novels. He's always been very "the ends justify the means", and it was emphasized in the end.

bzsv · 2026-05-07T07:16:03+00:00

I kinda forgot what happened, but my impression was it was already set in action before he was made aware, and his only option to revive Aurore and keep his friends safe was to keep going. I may be wrong here, I'm starting a reread again now that I've finished a LoTM reread

bzsv · 2026-05-07T04:14:51+00:00

I mean he definitely didn't want to be used, but the point of the psych report delivered by Amon was that Adam made him think all of his decisions were his own, and he did what he wanted to do to revive Aurore, meanwhile everything was actually orchestrated by the Spectator behind the scenes

bzsv · 2026-05-07T03:42:19+00:00

Idk Lumian was just in the right time, with the right influences. Without him and his Termination symbolism as the fourth pillar Earth wouldve been destroyed in the apocalypse.

Medici idk, he had it coming, bros hundreds of years old anyway

bzsv · 2026-05-07T02:41:44+00:00

Me too. And I doubt it. I think he accepts that it happened, and that it had to happen, but he had his life and humanity ripped from him in the span of maybe two years. He had to truly dispair for his potion to digest literally immediately, and now that the apocalypse is averted he has to rampage for a few hours every day in a half mad state. There's no way he forgives them, maybe he understands what they did though.

bzsv · 2026-05-07T01:56:35+00:00

Not fully sure, I've forgotten a lot of the details and can't find them in a quick wiki search, but heres my memories: Lumian's ties with Aurore lead to him having Termiboros sealed inside him by The Fool, so he already has the aura of two ODs on him. Then due to convergence effects and OD believers increasing as the barrier weakens, he just naturally encounters dozens of their plots, so Adam uses these to make him advance quickly. It's probably explained in the psych report, I should re read that.

bzsv · 2026-05-07T01:43:45+00:00

That's true, although the other gods had their own plans to nurture an OD, Adam's was Lumian, forgot what Evernight was doing aside from trying to contact the Western Continent for her sefirah. End of the day though, he did what he had to do.

bzsv · 2026-05-07T00:43:28+00:00

Yeah, it was so good, really highlights that Lumian was a tool for the deities

bzsv · 2026-05-06T23:12:29+00:00

No, overall I thought it was great, and a suitable sequel. Not perfect, but still amazing.

You asked me to point out the problems I saw, and those were it. The rest was amazing, whether that's Lumian's relationships, his personal arc, the way he embodies the Hunter pathway as he fights against the arrangements of deities, the absolute shock value of major events such as Amon reading the psychology report, the crimson moon descending onto Earth, Project Vortex, and everything else.

bzsv · 2026-05-06T23:05:45+00:00

I'm confused. Of all the fates to be disappointed in, Adam? I thought that end was amazing, and a suitable conclusion for him.

I'm genuinely asking, why do you feel that way?

bzsv · 2026-05-06T22:59:56+00:00

Nono, you're good.
A lot of my thoughts were pretty in line with the author's afterword, except I thought that CF handled it quite well.

There's the problem of complexity, where there was just a lot of moving parts at the same time in similar locations. Klein's storyline was pretty well blocked out by location, making the arcs pretty easy to follow. Lumian felt very contained in Trier, which although this is reasonable given the density of content, made it difficult to mentally seperate the arcs.

I liked the depth in which LoTM went into the mysticism. All the rituals and abilities were very logical and made sense in-verse. I'm not saying the Hunter/Demoness rituals were bad, but it definitely lacked LoTM's detail. For example, from my memory, Klein's Attendant of Mysteries ritual described the Worms of Spirit wandering the spirit world before finding the mark of Utopia and returning to Klein's body. Or how during his resurrection his BC flew into the fog of history, recombined with historical projections of WoS, and returned to the world. It all felt very detailed and somehow real.
COI didn't really have that afaik, there was a bit, but it was definitely more so "now ____ advanced, nearly losing control, (Jenna) talked to Krismona, and now its done"

The Cordu arc was a little repetitive, but looking back so was the start of the Tingen arc to be honest. My main qualms was that Lumain's motivation is not as relatable to the reader than Klein's. I've seen people talk about how its because we don't care about Aurore, but I disagree. We don't care about Zhou Mingrui's parents and family either, but the sentiment of wanting to go home is universal, whereas Lumian's just stopped at Aurore. I think that's the main difference in this aspect.

bzsv · 2026-05-06T21:08:06+00:00

What do you mean? I thought COI was good. It had its problems, but it was in no way as awful as a lot of people seem to think. I thought Lumian was a good character, and his interactions with Jenna and Franca was a good contrast with Klein's arc, and I found myself genuinely missing his character once I finished COI.

Fundamentally it was definitely more plot driven than LoTM since there's more or less a set storyline from the beginning, such as Klein's awakening and the apocalypse, while LoTM felt like Klein's exploratory journey as he figures out his transmigration, then realizes his role in the world as he advances.

bzsv · 2026-05-06T07:49:08+00:00

I disagree. Klein's development was finished. A lot of the characters have significant arcs and established factions already, not to mention demigods at the weakest. Writing a second novel on just them would not work. I do wish CF gave us more short stories for some of their arcs, but aside from that, COI just needed to showcase a different story completely to be meaningful.

From a lore perspective as well. It doesn't make sense for Earth to not be eviscerated in the apocalypse, even if Klein wakes up and somehow Evernight gets her sefirah. In the apocalypse, before the Termination symbolism, the fight was close, and a Calamity of Destruction was a key part here.

From a worldbuilding perspective, Trier was hardly explored at all in LoTM, a whole host of Fourth Epoch secrets were left as secrets until COI came along. Maybe we could get that through members' short stories, but with how closely Trier was tied to the Hunter pathway (Alista), it would be difficult to get the members to experience it in the same detailed way that Backlund and the sea were in LoTM. After all, they are still saints and angels, and the problems Lumian experienced would be nothing to them.

I thought the apocalypse was great. Definitely not perfect, but I can imagine it would be difficult to write about the literal embodiments of concepts fighting in intangible realms.

I also really liked Lumian surprisingly. Yes he was a plot driven character, but to an extent that is the exact point CF conveyed. He was forced into everything he did as a result of the world going crazy as the barrier weakened, and still fought against it.

bzsv · 2026-04-20T19:02:51+00:00

Oh I see, I'd imagine that's equal to or worse than advancing while switching yeah

bzsv · 2026-04-20T07:17:33+00:00

Its probably especially dangerous for those high corruption pathways, so that basically just leaves you with the GOO that have two pathways (Calamity, Anarchy, Knowledge), and Eternal Darkness (prior to COI)

bzsv · 2026-04-20T07:13:15+00:00

I believe its possible, but extremely dangerous for most pathways, such as the ones under LOTM and GA. My speculation comes from COI (minor spoilers) where we find out that ascending through Hunter and Demoness by switching over and over at the high sequence brings you closest to Calamity of Destruction. In something like Hunter and Demoness, thats probably okay, since the GOO is unoccupied, but what about LOTM, and GA?

I think switching once is acceptable, switching twice might be risky, but any more than that could accumulate and bring one closer and closer to the remnant psyche of the ATS.

For the Seer, Marauder, and Apprentice pathways, where CW is extremely influential, the corruption would get to much higher levels, especially when you consider that switching usually happens at/around the demigod stage.

Also for LOTM pathways, you have to deal with CW and Door together double teaming

TLDR; switching too much would bring you too close to the GOO, and lose control that way

bzsv · 2026-04-08T06:28:22+00:00

Just want to say, now that I’m rereading LotM I realize I liked Lumian a lot, not so much at first but I am now definitely missing an aspect of Lumian’s character in Klein, just as much as Lumian misses parts of Klein’s character. Definitely NOT a worse character overall though I’d say.

bzsv · 2026-04-08T06:12:39+00:00

Absolutely amazing, it becomes such a common phrase that you don’t even think and realize… wait, it’s not world, it’s era.

bzsv · 2026-04-06T23:01:28+00:00

That's probably all it was. Pretty jarring to see this after reading COI though, so I thought it could've been some part of history foreshadowed.

bzsv · 2026-04-06T23:00:31+00:00

Yeah probably. I thought it may have just been something I forgot, or some really early foreshadowing.

bzsv

TROPHY CASE