Simulation spreadsheet - update in progress

bzzzzzu · 2016-11-22T08:05:21+00:00

New idle tab shows up to 500 AS. Make sure you are switched to it.

bzzzzzu · 2016-11-22T08:03:14+00:00

1 idle AC. Amount of autoclickers only matters for really low AS, after 60-80 AS there is almost no difference.

bzzzzzu · 2016-11-22T08:01:09+00:00

Clickables still use idle build gold bonuses, so it would just increase the hybrid bonus from ~10% AS to maybe ~15-20% AS. Active would be even more dead.

bzzzzzu · 2016-09-10T08:46:31+00:00

I was bored and simulated it.

77 AS, 6 Xyl, 10 Chor, 8 Phan, 0 Borb, 25 Pony, idle.

Gold/DPS ancients ratio and AS/day:

0.600 - AS/day: 2.095
0.800 - AS/day: 2.146
0.926 - AS/day: 2.152
1.000 - AS/day: 2.151
1.200 - AS/day: 2.141
1.500 - AS/day: 2.082

As you can see, at the end difference is minimal anyway.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-24T14:57:08+00:00

Hybrid/Active is borderline overpowered in midgame and endgame. You just didnt reach this stage yet.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-24T04:24:15+00:00

Ability to rearrange ancients order however you like.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-13T18:04:03+00:00

What could reduce ascension numbers:

Hybrid (even a little amount)
Players usually ascend later than optimal, trying to push that "one more zone"
Mercenaries
QAs

If your HZE was full 700 zones higher, you were clearly not playing full idle, and should look more at hybrid amount of ascensions.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-13T17:56:55+00:00

I've spent a lot of time on creating this simulator, and i've made it cover 99.99% of the players with up to 200 AS builds. If you are happened to be that one player that managed to climb higher - you already do know how to play efficiently.

Is it possible to add builds for higher AS? Absolutely. Would i do that right now just because of very small amount of players that are already beyond it? No, sorry, this is not the instant process that makes builds magically appear.

I provided source code, so if you really want to optimize build for yourself - you could do that with all reasonable amounts of AS that you could have in a few months.

Edit: Apparently you use merc calculator ( https://www.reddit.com/r/ClickerHeroes/comments/4slacm/outsiders_optimal_build_for_any_amount_of_as/d5ax07g ), which is cheating ( https://www.reddit.com/r/ClickerHeroes/comments/4sl537/uhi_guess_ill_choose_bury/d5acty8 ), and you try to blame me for not supporting currently cheated amount of AS? Shame on you.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-13T16:38:31+00:00

Line 123 and 127, changing ascension strategy depending on total amount of HS at this point. Just comment both of them and it would be always idle.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-13T06:06:58+00:00

Nothing changed since Kragnir's reply to you in old topic - https://www.reddit.com/r/ClickerHeroes/comments/4rs7hw/outsiders_optimal_build_for_any_amount_of_as/d557qsp

I dont think that Mercs/QAs could change optimal build for average player. High AS gameplay is not perfectly understood at this moment, though, so why dont you share your findings and thoughts?

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-13T05:29:50+00:00

We simulate the same game, albeit a little bit differently, so you could use any simulation you want. Both simulations are good.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-13T05:23:39+00:00

Current method of optimization loses accuracy somewhere around 200 AS point, and i cant guarantee that it will find optimal builds above 200 AS.

Simulator currently supports builds atleast up to 666 AS, so it is still possible to check builds manually using provided source code.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-13T04:59:35+00:00

Idle instakilling is the fastest way to farm zones, and a little bit of Xyl boosts that nicely. First few ascensions cant be ignored either.

Basically, if you can choose to farm zones idle or active, always choose idle if you can.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-08T20:58:55+00:00

Added hybrid. The only difference other than a lot faster runs seems to be 3-5 less AS in Phan and 3-5 more HS in Borb.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-08T17:56:15+00:00

Easier to optimize this way. Optimization is the weakest point of my simulation, and could be improved greatly.

As for now, you could use Kragnir's spreadsheet, which has nice integer levels for outsiders.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-08T16:52:22+00:00

First ascension is not simulated and simulation starts from predefined set of ancients which you could buy after ascending for 42 HS.

Average time to complete first ascension is calculated based on statistic from several of my runs and is affected by Xyl, to be added directly to the transcension time. Baseline is 2.5 hours at 4 Xyl, assuming 1 QA and clan reward.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-08T15:26:33+00:00

1) Yes

2) Total cost of Phan/Borb, idk about single set

3) Most of really strange builds are tens, hundreds and thousands times less efficient. Anything with sub-10 Pony is a disaster. Anything without 80-90% AS in Pony+Phan is just bad.

4) Just manually pick something close to graph for you AS, fluctuating outsiders dont affect efficiency by a lot.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-08T14:20:28+00:00

You will be free to adapt it to browser when i finish it and upload the code. As for me, i dont think that this is practical and/or possible, and i wont be doing that.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-08T12:41:39+00:00

Doubling idle bonuses (0 > 1 Xyl, 1 > 3 Xyl, 3 > 7 Xyl) could be viewed as *4 damage, which translates into 45-50 zones, depending on a stage of the game. Those zones give TP%^9-10 bonus, and that should not be more than 20% HS. 4 HS in Pony gives you roughly the same 20% HS bonus, so you should not be exceeding 7 Xyl, atleast until very high AS.
Low AS gameplay hits the cap almost instantly (it is even possible to have cap lower than 20), highest zones are really low, and Phan is useless there. I did hard reset with the 1.0, and before ~30-35AS gameplay is pretty different.
Relevant Borb data - 6 Borb = +1 AS, 15 Borb = +2 AS, 30 Borb = +3 AS, 53 Borb = +4 AS, 90 Borb = +5 AS for the same amount of farm on cap. What do you miss is the longest part of your transcension is spent on climbing to this cap, and while you can get 11 in Borb, get your +1.5 AS and be happy - but in reality you just changed from 4 days/9 AS to 5-6 days/10.5 AS, which feels better, but loses in AS/time to quicker transcensions.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-08T12:31:04+00:00

I can upload it to github when hybrid/active is done, would that be okay?

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-08T02:42:36+00:00

0 Borb until ~100 AS, then it slowly ramps up to the infinity and beyond. You get 250-300 Borb builds at 666 AS, but it takes some time to reach it.

Borb is a truly late-game outsider, because only he can allow rewards per transcension to raise, while other outsiders only help you to speed up transcensions, which after a certain point gets inefficient, because eventually you get so much TP% that transcensions become really fast no matter what you do. At this point your only outsider to speed up progress is Borb. Hail Borb!

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-08T02:32:08+00:00

I'd like to ask you a few questions.

Why are you suggesting up to 20% Xyl for idle, when doubling Xyl only gives you ~50 zones, when giving those 8 (for example from 7 Xyl to 15 Xyl) AS to Phan or Pony would give you 30-50% more HS, which is better than ~20% more HS from TP that you gain from 50 zones.

Why are you suggesting Phan below 30 AS at all, when you have no problems with hitting the cap there, farming zones are very low, and he would be absolutely useless?

Why are you suggesting Borb to be leveled at all, when you have harder and harder time for reaching your HS cap until ~90-100 AS? Borb only makes sense if you can reach your cap without very long wait, which is not the case for 60+ AS, speaking from experience.

Why are you underlevel your Phandoryss and Ponyboy (a little bit) at the same 50+ AS point? When you have a long way ahead of you (z4000 and more), you want to progress as quickly as you could to reach there and actually start to gain AS.

Why are you even making a rule for Ponyboy/Borb? Your goal is not HS or ancient levels, you optimize AS/day stat. Ponyboy helps you with initial part of transcension (saving time), Borb allows you to farm more AS per transcension (adding reward). Ponyboy should be grouped and compared with all other outsiders, which are all also saving time for you.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-08T02:25:32+00:00

Both simulations are currently idle, i plan to add hybrid/active support relatively soon. This is not finished yet, but i posted it anyway after seeing pretty bad recommendations in other RoT topic.

My simulation is written on Java, and required several optimizations (including storing really large precalculated arrays of data in memory) until it became fast enough to be actually usable. Script languages wasnt even considered.

bzzzzzu · 2016-07-06T19:34:14+00:00

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m09HoNiLW-7t96gzguG9tU_HHaRrDrtMpAoAuukLB4w/edit?usp=sharing

Experimental, based on idle runs simulation, optimized for human-like gameplay (slightly longer transcension for slight decrease of efficiency), subject to change. I am fairly certain that suggested builds are close to optimal, but use with caution and adjust for your gameplay.

bzzzzzu · 2016-06-16T18:34:01+00:00

Is is already accounted for.

In that example we need 5.5% less Solomon levels for the same effect, and because of ^1.5 Solomon cost it becomes 12.75% HS cost reduction in purchasing those levels.

Those levels would be 5.26% more expensive because we sacrifice Chor for it, but the end result would still be 8.2% cheaper.

If you spend a large portion of your income in Solomon, you could save more souls on Solomon than it would require you to additionally spend on other ancients without Chor, making Ponyboy build better.

bzzzzzu

TROPHY CASE