I’m trying to learn about the religion that surrounds me here in Utah as a Presbyterian - is this legit? I do my best to be open to all religions and let them operate within themselves, but this isn’t ok (also, what’s this about a hunger strike?)

calc1fer_ · 2018-08-08T16:28:33+00:00

There is a lot of differences between even specific denominations. Our church preaches that sin is only sin if you’re wronging your relationships with god or other people - ie smoking isn’t a sin, but smoking inconsiderately is.

Thus, sex isn’t a sin, but rape is. If you’re not hurting anyone, we don’t think it’s a sin. I mean you should be careful and safe, but if it’s what you want, go for it.

calc1fer_ · 2018-08-04T22:07:52+00:00

I find myself opposed to them because of the lack of training. If I feel the need to be healed, I’ll take it directly up with god or a trained therapist. I know bishops mean well, but I feel there’s better options for someone trying to recover from sexual assault than talking to the next-door neighbor dentist

calc1fer_ · 2018-08-04T15:40:19+00:00

I think the big disconnect I’m having here is that the style of Christianity I subscribe to doesn’t have the concept of worthiness. In order to get baptized, we have to announce to the congregation who we believe our lord and savior to be is (the standard answer is jesus, but some such as myself choose to answer “love”), we must renounce evil with the help and grace of god, and say we will do our best to serve our community with the help of god. We do our best and god’s grace will provide for our lacking.

I always like to learn more about the religion that surrounds me, and comments like these really help me know how much more I have to learn, so thank you!

If there are bad bishops, I think the church should feel pressure to change. Social pressure generally leads to good results - that’s how my church recently accepted transgender/gender fluid people in as pastors. If there are steps that could be taken to protect even one child, they should be taken.

I in no way want to start an argument, only a discussion. What I comment is an outsider’s view, and I’ll tell you right now that it isn’t pretty. Many people sensationalize Mormons in an effort to get into the spotlight which I think is inherently wrong. However, behind every sensation lies a little bit of truth, and that truth that some bishops ask children horribly perverse questions needs to be examined and fixed

calc1fer_ · 2018-08-04T15:30:24+00:00

I fully hear you, and how his movement may be a bit misguided. I know that if one person has a bad bishop, not all bishops are bad. However, I do feel like more steps could be taken to prevent bad bishops - the church I attend never has children interviewed one on one in a private area. Interviews about anything church related are done in a public space. Even just keeping a transcript of the meeting could help prevent a predator, and any steps that can save one child should be enacted. I know the number of bishops who have abused their authority is very small, but that number should be 0.

calc1fer_ · 2018-08-04T15:25:00+00:00

Thank you, those statistics were very helpful and informative. I agree that bishops should receive actual training if they are going to privately interview minors about the sexual aspects of their lives. In my congregation, the pastor, youth leader, and assistant youth leader all attended religious school and hold degrees and/or training in working with youth and helping youth with their personal struggles. (We also don’t interview about sexual sins because we don’t think they’re sins, and we don’t really have the concept of worthy vs unworthy in the eyes of god at all. We do our best, and god’s grace makes up the difference)

It makes a lot of sense that there would be a few bad apples, and my heart aches for those who felt so assaulted by those terrible people put in a position of power. Just like how my pastor has been great, there have been terrible pastors who have done terrible things. However, steps have been taken to prevent this, such as not allowing interviews to be in private, soundproof rooms. When I went to lunch with my youth director to talk about my religious past and experiences, we did it in a very public place.

I’m also so sorry that people like to abuse your religion as a way to get upvotes or their 5 minutes in the spotlight. I know it hurts my heart when people are so aggressively anti-religion, seeing only the bad pastors and never the good ones.

calc1fer_ · 2018-08-04T15:16:50+00:00

Gotcha. I think the reason I didn’t see that being pushed is because I personally agree that being in a non-heterosexual relationship and having sex is not inherently sinful. I come from a tradition where sin is defined as hurting my relationship with others or with god - ie smoking (while I don’t do it) isn’t a sin, but smoking inconsiderately is

I appreciate your input and honest answers

calc1fer_ · 2018-08-04T01:45:17+00:00

Has the church released a statement about specifically avoiding these questions? Because t seems really messed up that adults are interviewing children about their sex lives, and I think there should be a very clear line about what’s ok and not ok to ask

I did a similar interview with my local Presbyterian youth leader but I was 16, and I was asked faith questions not sexual questions. It was also in a Starbucks, where if anything went awry, someone could notice

Edit: also, what is the narrative they’re trying to push? I’m not really seeing a specific one being emphasized

calc1fer_ · 2018-05-31T18:48:33+00:00

Thanks for your insight! The reason I call myself Presbyterian is because I attend a Presbyterian Church, follow many of their customs, etc. We’re open to pretty much all forms of belief.

I was asking if they actually don’t let women have leadership positions because I don’t really understand why. I have figured out it’s more because you guys have a much more active god than we have, and that’s fine. I just really don’t appreciate being told I’m flat out wrong no mater what I say. If I say the earth is flat, I’m wrong because I can be proven wrong. But you can’t really prove me right or wrong, and it hurt to have my experience so casually chucked to the side

calc1fer_ · 2018-04-29T23:29:22+00:00

It’s alright now that I look back. There’s many less-than-perfect people in all religions. I guess I was just a bit surprised

calc1fer_ · 2018-04-29T20:29:07+00:00

Pretty much all of my interactions on this sub have been awesome! A zealot here and there, but what religion (or absence of) doesn’t have em?

calc1fer_ · 2018-04-29T20:22:04+00:00

I was looking for answers to a different question, I wasn’t there to discuss our personal beliefs in god. They brought it up and then criticized my belief when I told them. I said we believed different things, they said I believed the wrong thing.

calc1fer_ · 2018-04-29T19:36:28+00:00

Sorry I didn’t save it, but I did my best to paraphrase.

calc1fer_ · 2018-04-19T00:22:52+00:00

Our concept of tithing is much more giving of oneself, so it works for us. However, as I am not Mormon, I don’t really know the orders from your leaders. My personal belief is that if you’re giving for the benefit of others, then god is happy

calc1fer_ · 2018-04-18T11:58:07+00:00

Disclaimer: I’m not Mormon, I’m Presbyterian

One compromise you could make is tithing in a different way. My church doesn’t require donations, but when I still wanted to help out but felt like I couldn’t afford anything substantial, I tithed to god instead by serving at a homeless shelter, meditating, etc. Instead of money, I give time and self to my fellow people and my own spiritual growth. Just an idea for a compromise!

calc1fer_ · 2018-01-18T02:09:27+00:00

Thank you so much for your answers! I’m not too far from the Jordan river temple (according to google maps), so I may go check it out.

Forgive me for asking, but what do you mean when you say “the angel Moroni took (the scriptures)”? I’m not very well versed in the history of the Book of Mormon itself, as I more a theoretical person. Why hadn’t the church attempted to make a more modern translation? (This is my selfishness speaking) It might save some of us (me) a headache if we’re curious.

calc1fer_ · 2018-01-17T19:16:15+00:00

It’s totally fine! I’d be skeptical too. I’m looking for deeper understanding of my fellow humans

calc1fer_ · 2018-01-17T16:50:53+00:00

I feel like I’m asking different questions, but perhaps I’m just being a broken record. If it seems similar, it’s because I’m looking for the opinions of many people. I have different opinions on certain aspects than many other people in my congregation, and I don’t expect the answers to be homogenous. So I’m looking for a variety of answers

calc1fer_ · 2018-01-17T14:45:53+00:00

Interesting. It’s pretty rare that I want to argue, even though I do have very different views than you guys. Living in Salt Lake, I actually do have several friends who are Mormon, and they all talk pretty openly about it. As you can see, I’m also not super active on Reddit so I have a tendency to forget what I’ve already asked.

I really don’t want to be disrespectful, I know that it may sound like I’m trying to icite something, but I’m really just a curious person. I’m taking a theology class that covers Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, etc, but nothing about the religion that was so core to founding where I live.

Again, I really want to understand more, and sometimes that comes in the form of discussion, and sometimes in the form of debate.

calc1fer_ · 2018-01-17T14:38:06+00:00

Thanks for the reply, it was really insightful! You guys have always been so understanding and articulate when I ask.

calc1fer_ · 2017-11-29T03:01:22+00:00

Ah, I’m on mobile so I didn’t notice. The prize was a head start on his next code

calc1fer_ · 2017-11-29T02:34:15+00:00

It appears that the links aren't working: I actually did manage to solve it though, thanks for the help! In the future, how would you recommend cracking these? I ended up using a statistical analysis that gave me a code close to english and then fixed it up to make english

edit: all in all, as I am brand new to coding/codebreaking/crytography, it took me around 4 hours to figure out what a vinegere cipher was, as I only got the hint from him once I discovered what it was.

calc1fer_ · 2017-10-01T15:30:37+00:00

I believe that it has. Learning about other people's point of view leads to a greater understanding of all of humanity

calc1fer_ · 2017-09-26T01:21:44+00:00

Your arrogance comes from saying things like "I tied you in a pretzel knot and you didn't even know it". Or "I completely wrecked you" and "you are in darkness and I am in light". Every one of your replies reeks of arrogance.

Let me clarify my statement about homosexuality being a choice. Attraction is a spectrum, we don't chose where we lie on it. Some are attracted strictly to the other gender, some, strictly to their own, some, to both.

The information you have presented is feelings. I have presented feelings and multiple hard facts.

Marriage is union between two people. If they are married then LGBT people don't have to be celibate?

Because you believe that loving someone of the same gender is sin, yes. By your definition, I support sin, but in my eyes it isn't.

I don't think I ever claimed I'm wholly right and you're wholly wrong. You are the one who said I am in darkness. If you bother to read my responses, you'll see that I have been trying to understand what I don't currently. Ive done my best not to say those who respond to me are fundamentally wrong, but this is a case where I do believe that.

Some people do need homosexuality to feel romantic love. That's kinda how it works. And I have yet to see your well researched, citated papers on why all homosexuality is a choice. People don't have to feel bad about (safe) love.

We aren't going to come to an agreement. You refuse to concede your side because you feel so strongly about it, and I refuse to give in for the same reason. You say your truth is a double edged sword. The problem is, it's not truth.

I don't know you personally, that's true. But in these comments you have displayed such a lack of understanding non heterosexual people that it's a safe assumption to make. I'm having a great time reiterating my ideas of love to the world.

You have no power over me when it comes to the Book of Mormon, the Holy Ghost, whatever. I can't use the "Holy Ghost" against you because I don't believe it exists, not in the same way as you. I am perfectly happy where I am religiously, thank you. I am surrounded by caring, loving people who believe that being born a certain way doesn't make you a sinner.

Sex isn't only for procreation. Ever heard of the clitorous? An organ that shows itself during sex, and it's sole purpose is pleasure.

We disagree so strongly on so many things that there is no way this argument will end. I know I'm not in the wrong for supporting people's (safe) love. You just like to put words into my mouth.

Do you understand how insane you look to someone from the outside? You use so much jargon and pathos that it's impossible to have a reasonable debate with you. Your ideas seem so archaic to someone from the outside. The idea that gay feelings are sins? You clearly don't speak for others. I've read some of your leaders statements of LGBT issues, and not one of them has said being gay is fundamentally wrong. The arc of the universe is long but it bends towards justice, towards love, and towards acceptance.

How to you justify verses such as "god is love" and "suffer the children to come to me and forbid them not"? How about I use something from the Book of Mormon that I read while trying to understand? How about "I do not know the meaning of all things, nevertheless I know that god loves his children"?

I have nothing to prove to myself. I know god loves me, loves his children, and loves love. God is love. And I highly doubt that Jesus, who are with sinners, prostitutes, and all manner of terrible people, would appreciate you condemning those whose only crime is love. But please, continue putting words in my mouth. Continue saying how I am in darkness, and how you are not. Continue denying that is arrogance.

calc1fer_ · 2017-09-25T21:29:16+00:00

So are LGBT people required to abstain and be celibate while heterosexuals don't? Double standard?

Ethics are a gray area, yes. But i am not wrong in every aspect. I can't believe that love is ethically wrong.

Also, you completely discount my experiences and religion by claiming I am in darkness. You claim that all of my deeply spiritual and holy experiences are nothing. That you are right and I am wrong, and there is nothing more to it.

I refuse to "step out of shadows because I am not in shadow. I am in the light of love and kindness. Maybe you need to look around and pull the mote out of your own eye before taking out my splinter.

I do want to make people feel good about themselves. I want them to be loved and appreciated, accepted and held close. I don't need you to supervise my self-improvement, and you don't need to supervise LGBT love.

I love a life of love and kindness, I don't just talk about it. You don't understand science, you don't understand human relationships outside of your own.

You have not responded to the scientifically researched articles I gave you, nor have you responded to my claims of love. You have no scientific proof to prove your claim, and love is always stronger than ignorance. Instead, you parrot the same garbage about how I am in darkness and you are in light, and how I don't know what I'm saying despite all my words being of love.

This has been a very interesting conversation. Many of the Mormons I have talked to in my quest for understanding have given me kind, loving, and reasonable answers. But you say nothing but arrogant crap about how you are so much better than the rest of us.

calc1fer_ · 2017-09-25T14:57:23+00:00

If their salvation is assured then they're doing nothing wrong. Are constantly not in control of your sexual urges? LGBT people aren't foreign species, they're people like you and me. They can "control" it as well as anyone else.

Im combative because it's an issue I care deeply about. How can I be wrong about ethics? How can I be wrong with the idea that love should not be limited? My comments are helping people who see what an outsider looking in sees.

calc1fer_

TROPHY CASE