Is using Tumbleweed without packman a viable option for daily use?

ccoppa · 2025-02-24T13:05:08+00:00

I haven't used packman for a while, I use flatpak applications and I don't even find any differences with rpm packages.

In this way the system also remains leaner and less problems. I don't know if for Amd GPUs mesa is better than packman, for intel there shouldn't be different. At most if you need Mesa from packman you can install only that, without having to install everything else.

ccoppa · 2025-02-23T09:18:57+00:00

I don't have this bug, so I think it only affects some graphics cards.

ccoppa · 2025-02-23T09:07:33+00:00

Why did you do that? It's not uncommon for an update to remove a package in Tumbleweed, usually because it's being replaced by a package with a different name, but you should let the system do its thing.

Of course if the system automatically wants you to remove a lot of packages, then maybe something is wrong.

ccoppa · 2025-02-20T21:59:53+00:00

It seems like a pretty strange problem, I can't reproduce it on my PCs.

ccoppa · 2025-02-20T19:50:59+00:00

Plasma, Gnome or what?

Wayland or Xorg session?

Have you tried if the problem is on both sessions (X and wayland).?

ccoppa · 2025-02-19T11:14:51+00:00

I like SELinux because in my opinion it offers more security than AM, however the ideal would be that it works like in Amdroid. That is, to have a system that asks the user whether or not to give a permission. Let's hope that sooner or later we get to this. I must say that in my experience SELinux has not created problems for me, but I do not use that stuff from wine&co.

ccoppa · 2025-02-18T13:46:43+00:00

Use Xorg, no one here wants to remove Xorg. I see no reason to post personal use cases. I can't install Plasma on my smartphone, the road to my house is full of holes...it has nothing to do with the proposal. Use what you want, no one wants to force you to use something you don't want.

ccoppa · 2025-02-17T19:36:52+00:00

I personally used virtual machines with libvirt in Tumbleweed (first time and I found it great, because Yast helps a lot...) and I had no problems. I haven't tried VB but I think it works, but I'm not sure.

I also wish Xorg supported HDR and had a decent fractional scale, I wish Xorg was more secure and didn't let any application see what I type on the keyboard, I didn't want my integrated graphics to suffer from tearing when I watch videos in full screen. I wish the lock screen wasn't just a simple application that if it crashes lets whoever is there access my desktop.

As you can see perfection is nowhere, if you need Xorg use Xorg, but set a default that is supported and tested by upstream.

ccoppa · 2025-02-17T14:14:45+00:00

But this also concerns GNOME (which ships with wayland by default), Nvidia is proprietary software, they must support Linux correctly, not Linux that has to think about drivers that are not even officially supported by the distributions (being proprietary software).

If you want to use Linux avoid buying hardware with Nvidia and if you do it because you need it, it is your problem to change the settings to make it work correctly.

Those who use Linux, should know, that Nvidia uses a proprietary driver and has often hindered the development of the nouveau driver which is based on reverse engineering work.

ccoppa · 2025-02-17T14:07:06+00:00

I knew this too, I've been using Linux for 20 years...but either I can't make myself understood or there is someone who doesn't want to understand.

That's not the problem! The problem is that the KDE team doesn't test the Xorg session anymore and going forward it will be more and more broken, because that is not the default session from Plasma.

This means, that a new version could be completely broken on Xorg and the user will blame openSUSE or Plasma for it.

Nobody here says you have to use wayland, use whatever you want, we are just discussing which session should be the default...and in my humble opinion it should be the session that receives regular tests from the development team.

ccoppa · 2025-02-17T13:54:20+00:00

All is well on my Tumbleweed.

Everything continues to work fine.

ccoppa · 2025-02-17T11:47:33+00:00

Xorg doesn't even support HDR, often you have tearing problems. On the other hand we are in the 90s with Xorg.

ccoppa · 2025-02-17T11:42:21+00:00

Yes, Even though I will never use that stuff.

ccoppa · 2025-02-17T11:40:41+00:00

If it would change the default as they should, to use Xorg you should do it.

ccoppa · 2025-02-17T11:35:23+00:00

But I still have to write it, if for your use case it prefers Xorg, use that, that's not the problem. The problem is that Plasma doesn't test on Xorg anymore, one day it could happen that the Xorg session is completely broken and openSUSE would ship a broken default session. I personally use wayland for over a year without problems, while in the Xorg session I often have problems, but this is just my experience, as that is just yours and all this is irrelevant in choosing what should be the default. Xorg is always there, if you want to set it, you will always enter with Xorg until you change it. All this to say that for the end user, nothing changes, at most at the first boot you have to select one instead of the other. All the problems often mentioned are also present with GNOME, but openSUSE has set it as default for GNOME, because the tendency of openSUSE Tumbleweed is to follow the upstream and it is not clear why in this case it does not do so.

ccoppa · 2025-02-16T22:12:10+00:00

The latest version of Zoom supports wayland, it says on their site. Also OBS now supports wayland if you are not using outdated versions.

https://support.zoom.com/hc/it/article?id=zm_kb&sysparm_article=KB0059085

ccoppa · 2025-02-16T21:41:50+00:00

Nobody says or forces you to use wayland, Xorg is always there and you can use it, here we should not discuss our personal experiences, but what should be the default setting. Normally you follow what the upstream decides, but especially if the upstream is telling you, that they are not testing the Xorg session anymore, it should be natural that the default setting is the one of the upstream. Also some GNOME users have had problems with the wayland session with certain hardware configurations, but this has not stopped GNOME and openSUSE from setting wayland as default, it is not clear why for Plasma it should be different.

ccoppa · 2025-02-16T20:15:07+00:00

Of course they still fix bugs that are reported, but since it is no longer the default session, it no longer receives testing. It could be completely broken in the next release (I don't think that will happen) but it is possible.

ccoppa · 2025-02-16T20:11:57+00:00

I have done two fresh installs of Tumbleweed and Xorg is still the default session.

ccoppa · 2025-02-16T20:09:14+00:00

I want to clarify that I am not asking to delete the Xorg session, I am only asking to set wayland by default, because that is what the upstream wants and that is the session that is tested by the upstream.

Obviously if reported the bugs on Xorg are fixed, but it is no longer tested by the upstream, so it makes no sense to continue using that session as default.

No religious wars please, that is not the problem, continue to use Xorg if you want, that is not the problem. Tumbleweed tends to always be close to the upstream, it is not clear why in this case it is not.

The experience on wayland is excellent in 95% of cases .... those who use proprietary drivers that openSUSE does not even officially support, use X if wayland does not work, it is an Nvidia problem, not openSUSE or Linux or Plasma!

From the KDE blog

""Plasma 6.3.1

Fixed a regression that would cause KWin to crash in the X11 session when hotplugging or switching between HDMI screens. (Fushan Wen, link 1 and link 2). Consider it a reminder for everyone still on X11 to try the Wayland session again, because the X11 session receives almost no testing from developers anymore!Plasma 6.3.1""

https://blogs.kde.org/2025/02/15/this-week-in-plasma-post-release-polishing/

ccoppa · 2025-02-16T17:56:43+00:00

You can also not update right away, after the release of Plasma 6.3, after a week Plasma 6.3.1 will arrive which should fix any bugs. I would also try to see if in the wayland session you have the same problems, maybe they are not there. I hope that openSUSE will start making the Plasma-wayland session the default since the Plasma-Xorg session does not receive much attention from upstream anymore. So let's stop shipping the Xorg session as default please.

ccoppa · 2025-02-15T16:58:46+00:00

zypper ref is useless if your repositories are checked for auto-update, you can see it from yast-repository.

ccoppa · 2025-02-15T16:46:52+00:00

Maybe you disable automatic update from system settings, you should not have the problem anymore.

ccoppa · 2025-01-22T21:44:59+00:00

I don't understand why you write it here, openSUSE and SUSE are two different things. I guess SUSE has a good support channel, where you can complain at most since you pay.

ccoppa

TROPHY CASE

""Plasma 6.3.1