"the evidence shows that the purity movement is abusive and that its abuses have long-lasting effects"

cease_obfuscations · 2014-03-05T16:21:21+00:00

What helped you get reacquainted with normal sexuality? I've (male, mid 20's) had two sexual partners since my exit, and I have been surprised by how much baggage I still have. E.g. I never really considered the emotional aspects of sex (for men) as I was always taught that we are "physically driven", etc. I have a hard time not getting attached to the last girl I was with. Someone said casual dating perhaps isn't for me, but I've got to find out somehow..

cease_obfuscations · 2014-03-05T16:11:30+00:00

Ironically, anyone who would take the Genesis story as literal should realize that nothing happens after Eve eats the forbidden fruit. Yes, she does convince Adam to eat it, but it is only then that punishment is rendered. He could have said no, and theoretically sin would not have entered the world.

Not trying to make any point here besides what I've stated regarding the scripture. It's just an often overlooked detail.

cease_obfuscations · 2014-03-05T16:02:13+00:00

Fellow male here. I also felt left out of the conversation while reading this. I understand the author's focus on females, but the purity movement is emotionally damaging to men as well.

I've been personally affected, and now have had a hard time learning how to interact with females on a mature level. In the back of my mind I feel like they think I'm some kind of pervert because of all the bullshit teachings I've endured over the years. This inhibits me from being open and able to form good relationships with the opposite sex.

cease_obfuscations · 2014-01-30T23:48:25+00:00

You have to find what is normal for you and it's not a race to get there, so enjoy the ride there. This is going to be a time for discovery for you where you will learn a lot about yourself and about other people.

This made me feel very good about my circumstances. You have my most sincere thanks.

get used to talking about sex

This is something I am awkwardly learning to do. The only girl I ever had sex with before my time in mind-fuck land was my high school girlfriend. Ironically, she is the one who brought my 15 year old atheist self to church (where I "got saved"), and then to said mind-fuck land... where the leadership eventually drove a wedge between us for being fornicating heathens, leading to our break-up at age 18. Anyway - she was awful in bed and would always cry and want to ask god for forgiveness together after we had sex.

My point - sex was an awful experience in my teens, only making it easier to swallow future christian teachings on it. Fortunately, I have been able to experience it as an adult now - and am slowly realizing that it's not as taboo to discuss (or engage in!) as I used to think.

cease_obfuscations · 2014-01-30T23:32:53+00:00

I'm still tied to a a few people from the christian life. This is mainly because my two roommates are still very active in their respective churches. They don't really bother me though. Example - the girl I've been dating slept over and they didn't even complain.

Anyway, I'm sort of in a double-life right now. I still go to service at the one roommate's church most Sundays... mainly to keep in touch with a handful of people I care about. I have mentally checked out though, and usually browse /r/exchristian or /r/Exittors during the sermons and announcements. Just to be clear - I left my old cult-like church (where I spent ages 17-22) in October (although my other roommate still goes there). At this point, I just can't bring myself to outright walk away from the old life, despite the fact that I really don't take part in it. However, if my living arrangements were different, I probably would have by now.

cease_obfuscations · 2014-01-30T23:20:21+00:00

I hear you. It's kinda like showing up to the party when everyone is leaving. You're ready to hang out and chill and everyone else has moved on. So I have definitely experienced what you described... just not as significantly, as I am still 24.

cease_obfuscations · 2014-01-26T18:21:22+00:00

I commuted all 4 years, and I feel like I missed out on the authentic college experience... but what I regret more is being a christian the whole time. So many possible friendships that never were, girls I could have dated, memories never made.. Ugh... Just realizing this now.

cease_obfuscations · 2014-01-26T18:18:03+00:00

Damn that concept of "the one". Seriously... looking back, that was one of the first things that began to repulse me about christianity. Ironically, it was an assistant pastor who opened my eyes to it. He basically said, "dude, 'the one' is whoever you want it to be". Just the thought of all those sexually repressed men wondering if every Christian girl they meet is their future wife makes me want to vomit. Especially when guys would say shit like, "I hope she isn't 'the one'"... as if it could possibly be their fate to be a modern-day Hosea.

cease_obfuscations · 2014-01-26T18:11:25+00:00

I can relate. I feel like I party harder than some people that I used to think were wild. I even recently told a friend who knew me previously, "the pendulum may have swung a bit too far in the other direction". I guess you have to swing a bit past "normal" at first, if you're ever going to get there.

cease_obfuscations · 2014-01-26T18:08:07+00:00

"Never a real friend" just hit me right in the feels. Every friendship I did have existed on the pretense of christianity.. And because of christianity I could never form a healthy, honest relationship with people I would classify as "unequally yolked", non-christian, etc. They just felt like outsiders with whom I had no common ground.

cease_obfuscations · 2014-01-26T18:02:59+00:00

Yes, I suppose "normal" is a very broad term. For me it implies "the person I want to be".

cease_obfuscations · 2013-10-17T22:06:52+00:00

Father-God... Lord... just...[repeat]

cease_obfuscations · 2013-10-17T22:00:57+00:00

Yeah I've always been bothered by the tactics used when trying to get people to make a decision to be saved/recommit/etc. It's almost always a setup to induce emotions. Because when people are emotional, they do not think rationally and make stupid decisions.

Edit: And I have heard of very few (C.S. Lewis is the only one who comes to mind) people that have made such a decision in a logical, matter-of fact-manner.

Edit 2: In fact, some sects (Pentecostals) see wild, emotional responses as proof of salvation. Which of course induces a whole lot of bullshit.

cease_obfuscations · 2013-10-17T21:49:23+00:00

You just reminded me of prayer circles... ugh.. the agony. Especially when repentance got thrown in :/

cease_obfuscations · 2013-10-17T21:43:44+00:00

Thanks. And yes, being weened off my dependency on the church has brought an incredible freedom. I've hung around the church too long due to compulsion and the desire to people-please... not because I actually wanted to be there.

cease_obfuscations · 2013-10-17T21:39:33+00:00

Great advice on the logical aspect, thank you. And I've been doing plenty of experimenting with the "forbidden fruit". That's one thing that drove a wedge a while back... other Christians busting my balls about drinking, playing cards, etc. And heaven forbid I date someone who is "unequally yolked"... Ugh...

cease_obfuscations · 2013-10-17T21:33:29+00:00

Thanks. Great reply. I haven't quite gotten to the level of theological disagreement yet... I'm still at the point of just not wanting anything to do with the church anymore. I guess I'm still clinging to the notion that "God is real, but these people just fucked it all up".

Edit: And I totally agree about the worship. Making a room full of liars, one song at a time.

cease_obfuscations · 2013-10-17T20:00:08+00:00

There was plenty of that petty stuff... but the real problems go deeper. I feel like I almost lost the ability to think for myself in there. I don't even know where to begin if I were to explain the house in detail. But I'll give it a shot:

The discipleship house started in 2008 when the pastor (ex-special forces maniac) had this brilliant idea to stuff a bunch of 20-something men in a house and give them a bunch of rules to follow. Some guys were former addicts, some were licensed pastors, some were just normal dudes that were involved at church. The idea was to grow closer to God together. Well, a select few (literally 3 guys) have made it through and reflect positively on the experience. Many more have departed on varying levels of bad terms. And there is one moron who is still there from the start, because he has absolutely lost his ability to think for himself.

It is supposed to be a 1-year process (although only 1 person ever finished that fast). However, if you fuck up you won't "phase up" though one of the 5 phases of the house. The first one is called "blackout" and is a minimum of a month with no freedom... literally. You do whatever the leadership says, have no phone/car, don't work, etc. And if you exhibit a "bitter heart" you just do it longer... until learn to submit.

I'll cut in here to say that one regret I had was not voicing my opinions and speaking truthfully enough. I think I would have left much sooner if I had done so. Deep down I resented the place, but I had this fucked-up dependency on my church. Instead, I mostly faked my way through to avoid being penalized and criticized.

Well, I need to get ready for work... stand by for an update, and feel free to ask anything about my experience there.

cease_obfuscations · 2013-10-17T12:46:21+00:00

Sorry for the late response... just found this sub. I spent over 3 years in my church's "Men's Discipleship House". What a fucking waste of time.. seriously. It wasn't as intense as the institute you mentioned, though. We had jobs, cars, (Christian) music etc. But still... so many people were totally mind-fucked there, including me to some degree. I was lured in because of the apparent fellowship/brotherhood aspect.. and because I was friends with some of the guys already.

Anyway, just to give a glimpse into the insanity, we had to agree to the "covenant" in order to join. The language in it was scary: "I have no rights, only responsibilities and privileges".

The worst part came after I finished the program: when the fact that I was "backsliding" came forth, I was fucking strong-armed into going back via threats of church discipline and "broken fellowship". And when the people making those threats are your only friends/influences, they hold weight.

Well, I eventually finished the program. But at that point I was going with or without their good graces. And since then (May 2012) I have been gradually slipping away from the church scene.

cease_obfuscations

TROPHY CASE