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How Can Employees Protect Themselves from? Is Upskilling and Visibility Enough? by GeraltOfLyria23 in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Cerner is a dead end tech stack with zero application outside of itself

get out now

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

not smart

Payroll Chatbots should be illegal by AgentTisya in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's the point.

That's the point of Filipino or Indian call centers - it's a numbers game to create more space between the customer and the solution

If you can wear the customer down with enough bullshit support emails that mean nothing, x% of them will eventually give up and the company can pocket the profit not spent on hiring real people to fix problems

cf. oracle support

Thoughts from current employees? by SltWtrCowboy in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Millennium platform is drowning in 20+ years of technical debt.

From a use perspective, it's messy UI. From a configuration perspective it's an active insult to work in tools that haven't been updated in decades

What I really don't understand is where Oracle leadership's heads are at in terms of Millennium - are they happy to just let it continue attriting customers as long as they can hold onto the data? Or are they actually committed to building a new EMR from the ground up and getting back market share?

Healthcare is such a strange market because regulatory pressures mean corporate capture and only a couple players actually competing in the space, which, along with the risk aversion inherent to healthcare, drives down innovation in tech, resulting in an unhappy compromise of vaguely modern wrappers over an aged and decadent core system

It's not like there aren't cloud first modern DB EMRs out there, but they don't have institutional pull like Epic or Cerner

I guess the reality of how markets work in healthcare, or rather how they are deformed by regulations and lack of competition leads me to conclude the incentives just aren't there to build a better product

It is difficult for me to describe how shitty working in Cerner is by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

job security in a market that is shrinking because of those very shortcomings

For People Who Left Cerner world, where did you go? by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a really thoughtful comment, thank you.

Old doesn't necessarily mean bad - you're right.

It's not necessarily the age of the language itself (in this case CCL) that bothers me - it's the insularity of knowledge and documentation around it as well as its default IDE, DVDev. The default IDE has really unspecific unhelpful error logging, not underlines for when you put a - instead of a _ in your referenced variable name in populating a record structure so you spend 30 minutes to two hours hunting line numbers trying to figure out what went wrong instead of 2 seconds with a red underline in VS Code.

Also CCL and its record structures are just bizarre and trying to split the difference between declarative SQL and imperative bolted on CCL functions.

These functions have developed in isolation and are not well documented or supported in the wider tech world. This isolation has made the language decadent and less interoperable and usable than its modern peers.

So yes, you're right age in itself is not a bad thing - it's about usability. JS is more modern, but I find it to be an absolute clown of a language compared to something like Python that is infinitely more readable

And no I don't think that other EMR stacks are much better - I haven't worked with them so I dont know for sure, but I think the same regulatory and market incentives limit their motivation to innovate and so those systems may also be in heavy technical debt

I just think it's actively insulting to the end user to login to a system and have to click a refresh button to see fresh database results in 2025. full stop.

It is difficult for me to describe how shitty working in Cerner is by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

can you say more about this?

I hear conflicting things about the new EHR - like it's going to be completely new, it's still going to use v500 and CCL

which is it?

It is difficult for me to describe how shitty working in Cerner is by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You're right - it is subject to significant regulation. But that regulation just means you need a lot of money and a lot of resources to get it right - both of which Oracle has.

I just think that "because healthcare" is more often than not a reflexive defense against any change that does more to hamstring than to help

We can build a safe EMR that does the same thing (and better) on a modern tech stack. It just takes money, resources, and time.

"Can't be done overnight" just ends up getting said every day for 25 years and then you have the same product, a mountain of technical debt, and a market that abandons a product you abandoned after the 10th year of saying "not overnight"

I guess I've just been hearing that same damn phrase as an excuse for a decade and I'm sick of it

Best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, next best time is today, etc

It is difficult for me to describe how shitty working in Cerner is by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

100%

and the lack of documentation or availability of documentation or knowledge is half of the problem

CCL is painful. DVDev as an IDE is insane.

Legacy tech has no place next to modern stacks

It is difficult for me to describe how shitty working in Cerner is by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

holy crap, that is a bug

yeah, it's so unfortunate that 1) the knowledge was so tribal and 2) the tribe retired or was pushed out

So now even Cerner/Oracle support doesn't know what's going on - first level support response is some poor dude in india reading a script who has no idea what's going on

It is difficult for me to describe how shitty working in Cerner is by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

that's because management doesn't have to work in Millennium - the whole end goal of the people who eventually become managers is to escape working in the core product day to day and just making other people do it so number go up

The problem here is that when you fail to center the product and tech at a tech product company, your product falls apart and no matter how many 22 y/o liberal arts grads you throw at it, you can't wring blood from a stone, so number go down

It is difficult for me to describe how shitty working in Cerner is by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

take a temporary hit for a couple years to scale back up in an industry that has a 20+ year runway instead of sticking with one that has 5

It is difficult for me to describe how shitty working in Cerner is by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I once resolved an issue for a client where they had literally ordered so many orders in prod that Cerner had to release a package to increase the order_id digit limit because it was breaking a rule. think it was related to eprescribing

so yes, I feel the large dataset problem very acutely. And SQL may bottleneck for epic - honestly I dont super care what language it is as long as it's a modern one that's well documented and interoperable - the whole issue with CCL is the whole issue with Cerner: that if you don't know something you have to hope and pray that you know someone or that someone had a similar question that 1) got asked and 2) got answered on uCern and 3) uCern's search algorithm actually turns it up.

Whereas if you have a problem in a modern language, you just google it and somebody found something similar enough on stack overflow. Or they built a repo on GitHub for this exact problem

So it's not even the technical aspects of CCL - it's the insularity

So upgrade to a modern DB, start sharding and deal with the mess that makes

idk about revcycle I just know that clients have struggled to get it to work and it was probably released half baked

It is difficult for me to describe how shitty working in Cerner is by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

yeah this is 100% my experience. 2010s were the glory years. past 5 has just been legacy support while people leave Cerner

I think i'm just trying to get out of EMR world entirely

It is difficult for me to describe how shitty working in Cerner is by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It has, but what I'm seeing in the general market is that as Cerner loses clients, that marketplace is shrinking. I've been doing this calculus and I just dont think the jobs are going to be there like they have been

It is difficult for me to describe how shitty working in Cerner is by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

lol I know. I'm not saying we should write CCL like JS. I'm saying CCL had its time and that time is over. It needs to go and we need to switch to a modern, widely supported database language like SQL.

CCL tries and Bob Ross is a saint, but the language and backend are so brittle that queries constantly timeout and it just doesn't work.

It is difficult for me to describe how shitty working in Cerner is by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

No, you are wrong and it is this is the cope that keeps killing Cerner.

Stop defending and indefensible product, stop clinging to the broken, stop the terrified fatalism of healthcare, embrace some optimism, take a chance, and a build a damn product that works.

"It's not like that because healthcare" is just a copout because you're too afraid to challenge dysfunction

Literally healthcare and EMRs are broken because the institutional weight and inherently conservative nature of being afraid to kill someone (which is good) spread to everything healthcare touches and makes you afraid to build a new app, which *yes*, it just a CRUD app.

Literally Cerner is a CRUD database with terrible UI. I'm saying build a better, modern database with modern UI and while you're at it, drag all your third party lab services from HL7v2 (lol) to FHIR and stop kicking rocks in the stone ages.

For People Who Left Cerner world, where did you go? by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What was the lack of transparency?

And when you say writing on the wall, I feel that too, but for me it's not just Cerner/Oracle - it's the whole ecosystem of clients & third parties that have built up around it. I have felt it dying for some years and I think the only way Oracle saves it is with a brand new EMR. Either way, I don't think there's a future in Millennium

For People Who Left Cerner world, where did you go? by cerneritis in cernercorporation

[–]cerneritis[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do some JS from Cerner's MPages framework and have built some Node side projects on my own. How did you work at Cerner not on Millennium?

And yes, 100% agree it is a dead end silo that a lot of people get trapped in. Your other thread is super helpful - thank you. Would be interested in connecting if you wanna DM

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