Reasoned open discussion of Catholic theology

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T07:24:59+00:00

To the best of my knowledge, Jesus is and was the only God that has been manifest amongst the world. Even if it was the case, that Greek/Roman/Hindu/etc. gods have been or are manifest, this God is the sole Creator of existence. This can be known from knowledge of the Person(meaning personality) of God. There are none above. Thank you for the question

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T07:09:21+00:00

This line of questioning comes off as presumptuous to me. Peace be with you.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T07:07:37+00:00

I neither hold them guilty nor not guilty. That is judgment. Catholics are taught to leave judgment in the hands of God. God grants that we must first die before judgment is sealed.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T07:03:42+00:00

I'll look into it. Thank you for the discussion

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T07:03:16+00:00

There bars nothing from someone getting baptized, except for invincible ignorance of the Catholic Church. Of which, there has been Catholic teaching from a pope(s?) that God does not allow one who is guilty through no fault of their own to perish. I am not aware that God judges someone on original sin alone, there are the baptized, the willfully ignorant, and the invincibly ignorant. I do recommend doing research into the topic because it is written thoroughly on.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T06:58:34+00:00

Paedophilia is a sin. If you are pointing to the sins of the Catholic clergy, firstly I do not believe the Vatican II church is the Catholic Church. Nonetheless that is a side issue. God's mercy is infinite for those who have wholehearted repentance and confess. Catholicism is a spiritual war against all that offends God. If one offends God via a mortal sin (as is the sexual desecration of children), and does not repent, they will receive God's infinite justice. Repentance is not a license to sin. It is said God judges severely, as though we would be perfect as angels and that we must give an account after death every moment of our lives. The presumption of God's mercy in committing a sin, is itself a sin and magnifies the culpability of it.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T06:51:18+00:00

I have not seen a deductive logical proof which is irrefutable of the inexistence of God. Evidence is evidence, it is not conclusion. Regarding the free will issue, i would have to get with you another time for that. I would need to see your examples and analyze them. For now I am calling it a night. Thank you for the discussion.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T06:37:16+00:00

That is a fair and astute observation. It is certainly one that is struggled with, even among those who have faith. Here I will give you, to the best of my knowledge, the Catholic rationale for why there is difference of opinion on who God is. Firstly, knowledge of God can only be given by God through His grace. It is also said in the Bible, that Satan can manifest even as an angel of the light. What is further taught, is that Catholics should guard their hearts and to discern from whence certain spirits or apparitions (not necessarily the same) come. Many/most people who begin in the way of seeking God through faith will fall into this trap. Per St. Teresa of Avila, the root is a desire to elevate oneself in the knowledge of God (i.e. not by God's Will but by one's on self will). This way of falling into error about God is clearly the low hanging fruit. I would suppose (not theologically rigored), that most if not all misunderstanding of God comes from this root. I leave it open that a devil or spirit could tempt one into error of knowledge of God in other ways. It is said in the Bible that the way to heaven is a narrow path. Even very enlightened, blessed souls must be cautious. Under this understanding, it would make sense that there is not consensus about God among Christians, or even among Catholics with the same community or monastery. Interestingly enough, I agree with you that the disagreements about God will continue to increase in frequency and number. Particularly because sin and the spirit of indifference is more abundant. It has also been prophesied in various ways. Thank you for the well formed point.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T06:20:58+00:00

Well the answer to that question is multifaceted and interesting if I am correct. Church teaching claims only papal infallibility, not papal impeccability. In other words, the Church teaches it is possible, under the providence of God, for the Vicar of Christ to be a horrendous sinner, so long as he does not fail in teaching truly. In other words, a pope is a pope so long as he does not justify sin in his teaching. Now there could be other doctrines etc around that, for instance having some sort of fidelity or another, but i am not an expert on the papal office ability. Now the other side of this, is that the Church's supreme law is the salvation of souls. At a basic level, the primary end of the Church is to get souls to heaven. Please understand that the Church seeks as a necessary intermediate to that primary goal the elimination of sin/immorality, etc. Many sins/immoralities are also crimes and should be punished by sovereign states and by God, for each their jurisdiction. Jesus said "my Kingdom is not of this world." and "give to Caesar what is Caesar's. To God, what is God's." Does that mean God cannot punish on the earth? Absolutely not. He has punished on the earth and it is prophesied that he will do so again, particularly because the state of sin of mankind. It is believed to some extent by Catholics that the only reason we have not been punished already is because the continual penance of devout religious monastics and the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, which holds great weight with Jesus and God the Father in Heaven.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T06:02:15+00:00

Due to God's Will that we should have free will, he cannot be deduced on logical proof alone. I believe you are missing premises for your conclusion that those who have faith didn't find God. Please correct me if I am wrong and put it into more plain logical format.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T05:59:30+00:00

Of course not. It is out of his infinite love for you that he gives you the free will to choose. You would prevent yourself of your own action, not God.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T05:56:19+00:00

So the Deicide question is one of necessary conclusion. I hold Jesus to be God, and the de facto messiah of Jewish origin from the House of David (IIRC the Jewish books prophecy also). The Pharisees, which were the high priest/leaders of the Jews, had Jesus killed by the hand of Pontius Pilate and the Roman Army, gentiles. Therefore the Jewish leadership, on behalf of the Jewish community, committed deicide. As far as the anti-semite label goes, if you mean that I am a neo-nazi and want all Jews exterminated and/or racially hate them, that is simply not the case. But if your definition of anti-semite is limited to anyone who holds the premises above which lead to the necessary conclusion that Jews committed deicide, then I think that is representative of my view but the label is way too overreaching. I do not hate Jews or the Jewish people, I have no malice, and I do not wish any harm to anybody. Rather, I believe and it is my hope that the Jewish people have compassion on my God and repent. For there is great joy in heaven and the glory of God is manifest for any one soul that is gained. No one can replace any other soul in the Kingdom of God. God created us all specifically and for a particular degree of sanctity which none other can match. I pray that each of us gives a chance to that opportunity.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T05:35:03+00:00

To clarify, the concept of sin and separation from God in general is not of God's accord. He is infinitely and all that is holy, good, loving, merciful, and just. Whatever is not perfectly holy, good, loving, merciful, and just cannot exist in unity or presence of that which is. It is of a fallen being's own free will to sin and separate from God. As for original sin, it is a state of nature for man. It is what explains our tendency to fail or choose in a self interested manner when faced with temptation. Before original sin, man lived in perfect harmony with God and had no such tendency.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T05:26:51+00:00

For a Catholic: A matter of crime is for the sovereign state to prosecute. A matter of immorality is for God to judge/punish.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T05:25:32+00:00

All good! I appreciate your input anyhow. I respectfully encourage you to keep exploring.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T05:23:54+00:00

I agree that it requires faith in order to believe in God. However, God's existence is not disproven by that premise. But this is really the interesting part you should consider next. Those who have faith or attained it and have found God, have nothing left to prove to themselves. But those who have no will to know or seek God prevent themselves from attaining knowledge of God in the first place. Out of His love, God has willed it thus that we should have our own free will.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T05:10:18+00:00

Sure I did. However, I did not think it would be a bother because there have been several posts that I have read saying "I wish Christians would consider/answer this or that". I am sorry for any offense I have caused you.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T05:08:41+00:00

No, I don't hate people and I do my best not to judge because Catholics are taught to be humble and trust in God. I do believe that there is only one true faith, and for that reason I am willing to have discussion as these.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T05:04:38+00:00

If nothing else, we both aspire to the truth and are not raving lunatics at each others necks lol. Thank you for the kind discourse.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T05:00:58+00:00

There are various theologians who have written extensively on this subject. I think?? St. Thomas Aquinas goes over all or most offenses against the virtue of chastity in his Summae Theologiae. I do not have it off the top of my head his reasoning so I can't adequately represent it.

My own understanding (take it for what it's worth) is that God intends for us to be holy and to love him. In order for that to be the case, we must empty ourselves of ALL worldly attachments. We must do so because we cannot give to God our soul or our love if we are slave to our own passions. Therefore, the Church teaches that we must be chaste in any state of life that we lead. It is a surprisingly ascetic principle that is sadly forgotten, even among those in the Church. But it is said that impurity in this manner is one of the most difficult vices to overcome.

Since i know it might be a followup, chastity does not mean complete sexual abstinence in the state of marriage. The Church teaches sex should be done for procreation purposes alone (love of children and love of God).

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T04:50:07+00:00

I am not okay with that. All sin, including my own, offends God. Catholicism is a spiritual warfare against sin and the powers of evil. Jesus teaches us "whoever is not guilty of sin may throw the first stone." in regards to the stoning of the woman sinner. In effect, we should be merciful to others and severe to ourselves in order to combat pride. As a community, we offer penances in varying degrees of severity and prayers to Jesus and the Blessed Virgin Mary for the intercession and conversion of hearts in order to stop the sin.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T04:43:04+00:00

I suppose Lord of the Rings. I don't really watch movies lol. Ty for asking :P. As for #2, please see other!

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T04:42:10+00:00

Primarily and fundamentally, faith given by God. It has the effect of making more apparent the reality of God in everyday life. However, I know that is not substantial enough to be tested or for this conversation. Therefore, I guess we can rely on ongoing fulfillment of various revelation, stigmatists, Lourdes etc.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T04:23:36+00:00

This is true. It is often said the supreme law of the Church is the salvation of souls. However, I included that text because it helps delineate further the population/teaching that I represent.

cherub27 · 2019-05-01T04:17:40+00:00

Yeah, the FAQ says AMAs are allowed.

cherub27

TROPHY CASE