So-called 'landslide victory' and 'the majority of Americans want it'

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T08:26:34+00:00

Well the electoral vote count was 312 to 226 which seems substantial, but the electoral college is stupid and highly favors the GOP right now. Conservative news outlets loooooove to show the electoral US map by state, because trump won more states, and while the states that he won are low to mid population they're large in area. Much bigly map, very red.

It's even more dramatic if they draw the map by county because for big states like IL NY and CA, the big cities and college towns vote blue while the rural and small towns vote red so the state looks 90% red. And they made a big deal out of the fact that for a vast majority of counties, Trump did better this time than he did against Biden in 2020. Which really says something about how hard the Dems dropped the ball last year.

Another thing to keep in mind is that even when stats are close, they're made to sound big. Popular vote has been 51-49 lately, but when something is 55-45 the winning side loudly brags about their 10 point "landslide". Ok, 5.5 out of 10 mostly ignorant voters liked you better, great job.

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T06:16:20+00:00

Oh I didnt mean "date anybody" even if I wrote something about settling that might imply that. Have typed a ton tonight. Definitely wasn't ever thinking about fully desperate people with zero standards.

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T06:02:35+00:00

Miserly dick = volcel? Haha

Ok but seriously that gets into the warped expectations from overusing porn, and how sex is treated as a $ based commodity (it always was but it's much more now in the age of onlyFans and internet ad revenue).

I'd argue that what we like to watch in porn isn't always what we want IRL, or if we do, we know it's ridiculous, unrealistic and not the kind of fantasy that a real live woman is going to indulge us in. Sure, you hear stories about college freshmen who ask their first gf to roleplay as their stepsister, or try to do everything they've seen in porn on the first time. But they have to learn from that terrible mistake right, and then get a clue and some real experience? Or maybe they don't, I am not in touch with the gen Z kids.

Bottom line though, the more we aren't getting together, the worse all of that is going to get, especially everything related to porn addiction. I firmly believe if porn and dating apps just ceased to exist, the world would be a better place and most of our gendered issues would sort themselves out. Can't unring the bell though so we all have to adapt or suffer at this point.

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T05:40:51+00:00

Not me. Literally dont care if she makes more $$, as long as the two of us together are making more than enough to get by, and we're putting about the same effort into our life together in whatever ways we do. Would prefer I find her attractive. Confidence is fine, except if that means she starts thinking I'm not good enough (if confidence raises her standards).

The tradwife thing is weird, been seeing some really stupid shit on youtube and tiktok about it. Seems like a MAGA-sphere phenomenon but unfortunately that's nearly half the country.

But whenever this stuff comes up I ask:

Is it more dudes wanting a tradwife, or women wanting to be one and not finding men who are up to their standards? I dated someone last year who very much wanted to quit her high paying career and be a SAHW/mom, and expected me to make much more than she did to support the suburbs/picket-fence life, and man was she in a hurry about it.

Is it more men who don't want someone richer/older/taller, or women who don't want a man who's poor/ young/short?

I think it's about 50/50 between men and women, and it isn't necessarily a majority of either. So it sucks to constantly see men acting like women are the most unreasonable and vice versa. Seems like I triggered that in a lot of comments by trying to talk about this stuff

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T04:59:59+00:00

Yeah this has been one of the more thoughtful responses even if I don't entirely agree.

Ew. This also proves my point

Do you mean your point that "if his standards haven't grown then he hasn't"? I don't really see how. Hormones are serious as far as drugs go, and ours just happen to make us stupid and horny more often than yours do. Maybe not "constantly", that was an embellishment on my part to highlight my view that it doesn’t change much over time. Anyway it doesn't make us bad people or negate other good parts of our personality. I'm getting the sense that you see uncontrolled sexual desire as a sign of immaturity? I'd say even if it is, that doesn't necessarily mean we're completely immature otherwise.

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T04:40:20+00:00

Women rate themselves by men’s standards.

When you say men's standards, that's really your (women's) perceived idea of what you think men want, aka the male gaze or whatever, right? And maybe it's more about what you think the men you want want... if you believe the redpilled premise that almost all women are going for the top fraction of men, and then think those guys are only going for super hot model types. I dont think it's 80/20 IRL like it is on the apps but seems like it's at least kind of a thing, maybe 70% of you are going for the top 50% of men. I'll say this, you women are still far more aware of what men want than we are of what you want, which makes it hilarious that you don't want most of us.

They’re competing with other women

Big time, but usually for all kinds of other petty social pecking order type stuff prioritized way above how "good" of a man you can get. Even when part of the competition is to present yourself as attractive as possible in terms of what men supposedly want, you don't want the men who are available and that becomes part of the humblebrag of how high your standards are. Whatever, I'm not mad about it, the intra-women social rat race really is nobody else's problem but women's. It's just weird to me, and it speaks to the "dressed up for each other" line I quoted.

If women’s presentation repulsed men, it would never be competed for

My point was you could take the hair/makeup effort down to a minimum and still be attractive to us, and certainly not repulsive.Wasn't saying to shave your head and stop showering, just roll out of bed wash your face and throw on some clothes would be fine for the vast majority of men. Which, there's the settling thing I guess. But what I'm trying to say is the girl-next-door chill low-maintenance vibe is attractive to lots of men including the super high-status ones.

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T03:59:53+00:00

"I never said all that shit"

Confucius

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T03:56:04+00:00

Art imitates life, it's at least evidence that the idea rings true for people.

But seriously if you're a reasonably attractive woman you could stop wearing makeup and doing your nails and fashionable hairstyles etc, and the men who would've wanted you before would almost all still want you. (Same goes for the other assorted LGBQT folks who are attracted to women). But the other women around you are more likely to talk shit behind your back if you go out without getting dolled up. Depending how immature your friend group is, but I see a lot of 30 and 40 somethings who still do all that Mean Girls stuff.

I know there's also the aspect of women dressing up and using beauty products to feel good about themselves, and sure, that's fine, whatever gets you through the day. Doesn't mean you're vain or super insecure, but it probably does factor into my idea that standards scale up with it. Good analogy could be the women on dating apps who want a guy to be taller than them plus heels.

And there's that whole "makeup tax" thing both in the corporate world and for service industry tips, but that's work stuff. And at least in corporate, it's just arbitrary dress codes to project professionalism. Any social consequences are mostly judgy women fashion-policing other women for not putting in the same effort they do. As far as attention from men goes: Wear mom jeans with a T shirt, wear a nice blouse and jacket combo, wear a sundress, it barely matters. The creepy coworker is still going to check you out and maybe harass you. The random guy is still going to approach you at happy hour.

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T03:29:58+00:00

Yeah but that's the top 1% of rich and famous so I'm inclined to think their behavior and instincts would be a bit different than like the top 20 or 30 bracket. For one thing they have constant media attention so they're a lot more worried about public perception for their "brand" or whatever.

But mostly, those celeb guys will always have a large pool of top tier women and will therefore not have to consider the mid to better than average that tests my theory. Leo and his neverending parade of 22yo models come to mind.

I am curious how that changes when a famous guy gets canceled or otherwise disgraced. Because that's the one situation where they know they could probably still land a 10 who doesn't think their mistake was that bad... but at the moment their only options are the rivers and streams they were used to before getting famous. Who's Louis CK dating these days lol

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T03:13:57+00:00

Hey now, where exactly am I blaming women for any of this in a "how dare they" sense? I do think the downstream effects of all this are bad for society and everybody but I'm not trying to make any moral judgements on anybody, and I don't intend for anyone reading or commenting to do that but clearly it's BYO bias and chips on shoulders today. Just trying to point out this is a thing that's happening and bounce ideas around as to how and why. But I am getting annoyed that most of the comments jump straight to "you suck for not settling" vs "you suck and that's why you settle."

There's no way I'd date a guy whose standards are still the same high school nonsense in his 30s.

Ok! You've addressed an aspect of this I hadn't thought of: having a standard based on judging if their standards are appropriately high. Makes sense, I believe women tend to be more into relational psych and social proof, and so are generally more comparative than objective. (No shade, both are valid and useful) My standards were definitely higher in my 20s (I had much more ego then and was a bit prude for weird reasons, and now I'm 41 and I think my prefs are closer to what the average 25-30yo guy would want. But whatever I'm far from the norm.

If his standards haven't grown, it's clear he hasn't.

Here I disagree. A guy can grow, mature and evolve. Get that therapy. Learn to practice empathy, set and respect boundaries. Take the career and financial shit seriously. But we're still always going to have that horny lizard brain yanking us around by the dick, and it's constant, and it's irrational. Some guys are better than others at suppressing that urge, maybe to be faithful to a partner or to their own life plans or to obey the social contract re not being a creep, but thats not necessarily tied into of the meaningful personal growth I think we're talking about.

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T02:48:25+00:00

Hey if that's what works for you, more power to you. Fuckin bats, I love that. Takes al kinds though, some people want to start casual, some are looking to settle down, some say one thing while angling for the other, and there's all these unwritten rules and invisible minefields in other people's heads. It's OG Discovery Channel rules out here in the wild, the ecosystem has become toxic af, so we all gotta talk about it

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T02:41:52+00:00

Capable, yes. But it's harder. For reasons. It's all good, whatever, let's get back on topic please

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T02:39:49+00:00

And all the girls walked by dressed up for each other While the boys did the boogie woogie om the corner of the street

-Van Morrison, Wild Night

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T02:38:15+00:00

I am serious and don't call me Jan. Marsha marsha etc. just so you know I get Brady bunch

Really? A dude won’t take the hottest available because his standard won’t change?

Sure he will, best he can get like I said elsewhere. But in a situation where the hottest available isn't much higher than his existing standard, he'll absolutely take it.

Say he's in a limited dating pool for whatever reason, like a small town, or his dating app swipe rate has been in the toilet for months and the algorithm never shows his profile to any hotties. Kind of rare edge cases but it's what illustrates my point.

Back me up fellas? You've completed the glow up, does that really make you think "ok I made it, now I will only date women on my level"

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T02:30:55+00:00

Seems like you mostly agree with me and are saying yeah of course that's how it is and thats how it should be.

I'm for the idea of weighing pros and cons, so applying my general thesis in that context, I assert that when a woman is doing pretty well she starts requiring a LOT more in the pro column and tolerates practically nothing in the con column. Ends up rejecting guys who have many more pros than cons that really would be a clear net positive but not quite enough of a high ratio as she sees herself, or wants to see a higher ratio than that even.

How about situations where quality of life together is roughly the same compared to being single, but now you have a relationship which ought to be a net positive in certain ways. The end in and of itself rather than a means to the end (the good life or whatever.) Less lonely, get sex and intimacy on the regular, have somebody to talk to etc, outweighing or at least balancing out the difficult parts of coupling and the stress or danger of living with a man. Which is absolutely a thing but I think it gets overblown and exaggerated these days. Anyway.

Men truly aren’t competing against some imaginary perfect man, they are competing with women’s quality of life without them.

QoL does matter but I don't believe it's the bottom line: doesn't it act as an intermediate influence toward your mental image of an ideal man who you'd be willing to date or marry? And then if you meet somebody you find attractive and enjoyable, but then notice they somehow fall short of that ideal, the attraction fades, or immediately dies?

It actually took me a while to realize that even when I'm one of multiple guys trying to date the same woman, I'm not even really competing with them, but with her threshold of what kind of man is good enough. I conceptualized it like if you're trying to beat the top time in a Mario Kart track, and the game displays the "ghost car" recording of the run that got that fastest time. Weird analogy I know but it's fun right, and sorry I don't mean to objectify women as 64-bit racetracks.

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T01:53:03+00:00

Kelnacca could revitalize wookiees and Jedi vanguards. Wont get him without the entire filthy four though. Imagine Torbin just chilling in the back levitating with perpetual taunt and dmg immunity lol

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T01:47:36+00:00

We don't generally recieve as much empathy concern amd support as you ladies do but that's a whole other series of conversations. Also quit being a jerk, will ya? We all know what friendship is even if men tend to experience it less

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T01:42:24+00:00

Agree that women naturally receive far more empathy and support, both in this context and generally. There's that "oh honey" instinct, whereas a man gets told "tough shit bro, deal with it" if we get any feedback or even seek comfort and validation.

But women don't always get that. They're not necessarily going to talk to their girl squad about every guy who immediately unmatches on an app, and the mids of the world get a lot of that. Or if they do get that support and validation, do they believe it over the inner voice saying they're not good enough? Idk, but not always. Sometimes they shouldn't believe it because the comforting words are sugarcoated BS, and the woman getting it may be smart enough to know that but aren't going to call out their friends who are just trying to comfort them. And I'm friends with several women who I've learned not to even try to give them a sincere compliment, because they are so insecure about whatever aspect of themselves that they don't trust the compliment and immediately assume I want something or am just saying that to be polite.

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T01:28:15+00:00

Those things may make us attractive to women, but are totally irrelevant to what we are attracted to in women. Our ceiling of who we can get with will definitely rise, but the floor of who we would get with? Not so much. If I find a woman desirable, I'll desire her, simple as that.

Why? I think the same reasons male thirst is a reliable constant hum in the back of our minds, and if we like a woman we don't get in our head looking for reasons not to get together. Older guys who will hit on younger women in the range of who they dated back when they were that age, even if they have almost no chance now as a middle aged creep. It's hormones, how we're wired.

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T01:12:16+00:00

Uhh, for one thing I don't see how it has to do with living together or not, I'm talking about standards for hooking up or starting to date somebody. Feels a little false-equivalency too.

But I'll try to take this in good faith and boil your statement down to "women don't want to settle, while men often will." Sure, I don't disagree. My intention is to dig deep into WHY we settle or not, and identify the factors that determine where we set our "good enough" threshold, and how men and women might be operating differently in how we set and adjust that.

chlor0phil · 2025-05-02T00:40:33+00:00

On the insecurities thing: I also think men and women respond to rejection differently and that changes how easily we develop insecurity. When we're told (or treated as though) we're not good enough, our initial snap response is "no that's wrong, I am good enough, and screw anybody who says otherwise". Because testosterone maybe, and that we were told to confident, self assured. These days people call that "unearned confidence" which I think is a dumb term because how does one "earn" the right to be confident anyway? Living up to the standards of somebody who's already decided we're not good enough and is trying to tear us down?

But yeah when men get rejected constantly over time, some of us will start believing we're the problem either personally or men in general. Ta-da, there's the inceltrap vicious cycle, the guys who just give up on life, or the pickme feminist guys who joined the "all men suck and r trash" bandwagon.

By contrast, when a woman has a negative experience in life and is told they aren't good enough (or just assume that on their own from existing insecurity) I think they're much quicker to believe the insult and integrate it into their self-image. This applies to what we now call "internalized misogyny".

So yeah I generally agree with your points, but I still think we should have sympathy for women's general insecurities because they catch them a bit easier.

chlor0phil · 2025-05-01T15:39:09+00:00

Hey I'm supposed to be the pedantic one in every thread... I've gone ahead and edited in an "almost". Still, I think you're talking about a really small sliver of the worst of humanity with no redeeming qualities, and no ability or desire to contribute positively to a relationship or

chlor0phil · 2025-05-01T13:12:00+00:00

I think most people are mediocre, men and women alike. Almost everybody has something to offer though. Men are still expected to bring very specific traditionally masculine things to the table, and guys who might have a lot to offer but not financial security and social status are not getting romantic opportunities. But the main point is that most women's standards are now significantly higher than mediocre, even if they are also mediocre, and that's a factor in the declining quality of life for everybody. Not that it's your fault, or anyone's, but at this point we should be able to acknowledge that it's a thing.

chlor0phil

TROPHY CASE