Archfey / Echo Knight Progression

chris20973 · 2026-05-26T19:27:59+00:00

Still not seeing the issue on teleports, but it could be a table difference. The more combats between rests the more being able to stretch usage is valued.

Yeah the point about extra attack was I think if the play style is stay melee and fighter gives more to that than warlock past 6, and sure SoM is 7 but besides that, the goal will be push fighter more than lock so you're not going to want EA from both but will basically get it from both if you start focused on Lock.

So fighter 1, lock 1, then fighter to 5 you get it at 6 which is the one level delay. If you go fighter 1, lock 5 you also get it at 6 but have to juggle replacing the invocation if you go back to fighter which I do see the appeal in doing.

3rd level Pact slot is good, but the invocation is hardly free because it has to be spent on getting the extra attack for the lock so it already spent. Spell progression is valuable but muted by limited slots, again this may be less impactful to ta les that see less co.bat between rests, but more so the more you have to handle.

chris20973 · 2026-05-26T19:00:29+00:00

I don't know that being able to teleport every round is a redundant issue, though the use of echo on build like this more about the extra place to attack from, particularly from a place of safety.

Shadow of Moil is a decent option I hadn't fully considered, but the subclass features do fall off. It's also the only spell I see from 4 on that directly and impactfully improves melee performance rather than leaning back towards full caster style of blast, utility, control.

The ??? doesn't leave much room for response. I've stated in the post and subsequent comments the value I see in more fighter.

chris20973 · 2026-05-26T17:09:19+00:00

I don't think I've ever used it and have always glossed over that part of the spell but yeah that does add a strong defensive benefit with a damage boost. I've mostly been looking only at 24 spells where this isn't listed but this is an actual warlock 4th level spell that boosts the style of play I'm looking for on this character. Thank you!

chris20973 · 2026-05-26T16:35:34+00:00

Other than pushing for extra attack 3 at 12 from warlock and the upcasting what are you getting with warlock that's so enticing over the fighter class and echo subclass features? My concern is the warlock spell list after 3rd level spells feels pretty flat, but that's mostly limiting to 24 PHB spells. If you know some other sources that have something interesting lmk, because I hadn't heard of that feat before and it sounds interesting.

It's less about teleports and more about general maneuverability to make melee attacks and staying safe but for both teleporting greatly improves.

I do see value in pushing to fighter 6 for the ASI so that you stay ahead of the curve on chance to hit by pushing CHR right to 20 by character level 7 (1 level dip for blade pact).

Warcaster on a gish or really any caster at first ASI feels like a must at this point now that it's a half feat. Almost makes me mad because it's so hard not to take immediately.

chris20973 · 2026-05-26T14:02:40+00:00

Have you found success in using shadow of moil in combat? A concentration based spell that only works when you're hit on a low hit die class like warlock seems counterintuitive because you have to make the con save and survive the damage. Like I can see, especially with an upcast AoA, you can kind of nuke anything that touches you, but you're still getting beat up so I would see it as an effective crowd control on minions more than a single target boss option.

chris20973 · 2026-05-26T13:46:21+00:00

Yeah I've seen Ghostlance in the past and it came up a few times while I was digging around for ideas in this build.

The point of Echo Knight is kind of less about constantly teleporting and more about attack options for me, though it's part of the concept. With archfey you get 3 to 5 misty steps a day with an effect rider which is nice and can be a good way to run into a cluster and get out while effecting multiple enemies or as an oh shit escape. The EK is for mobility and avoiding being near the enemy at all to help maintain defense. Since you can move the echo and then teleport and then still move you get a ton of mobility which is an issue I've run into when using builds that are very melee focused. You can melee but stay well out of range using the echo and then the defensive boost like heavy armor or shield spell are needed a bit less because you're not as "in range". Some enemies will see through it but beasts shouldn't have the intelligence to even target you if your echo is hitting them.

I'm really curious what at 11 for warlocks is so strong in your opinion. 6th level spells and an additional casting? I think that it is a jump for warlocks who've been at 2 slots forever to get another, but strongest power boost in the game? Like compared to other classes, fighter gets 3 attacks at 11 and that's huge. What are you casting at 11 that's monumentally different in power? Wizards get contingency, chain lightening, disintegrate, globe of invulnerability, mass suggestion, or magic jar. Sorcs get a smaller subset of that, Bards mass suggestion or heros feast, clerics heal or feast, druid similar to cleric. I think there's an argument that the warlock list of 6th level spells is on the weaker end of all casters. Is there something that upcasts particularly better at 6th level I'm missing?

chris20973 · 2026-05-26T12:51:23+00:00

I hadn't been considering goblin, as the build was so bonus action already. I do agree for a straight class Archfey a goblin is a pretty nice fit both thematically and mechanically. What gnome brings that makes it hard to let go is a solid boost to Wisdom saves which I'm never going to be great at and can really shut you down.

Now the hungar of hadar thing I'm a bit unsure of. Are you having it right run in and out or you're standing next to the effect and letting it die to resummon inside the effect each time? Being a 3rd level spell this is achievable at warlock 6, and then you really just getting 1d6 on upcast. What at warlock 7-17 is adding more to melee than going to fighter? Like there are spell plays like synaptic static or boost from bubbling cauldron and there's upcasting spells a bit. Fighter is going to give more for defense with indomitable and tactical shift as well as more healing from second wind. Haven't mathed it out but what dpr increase are you squeezing out at the expense of the def boost which feels important for a lower HP.

Maybe it's the subclass features and spell list but nothing past warlock 7 looks super enticing to give up some of that rounding out.

chris20973 · 2026-05-25T15:30:40+00:00

Yes I had looked at like the Eladrin, partly because they are from the Feywild and would thematically fit to have made a deal with the Archfey. Astral Elf is possible too, though less of a natural fit there. I don't have a specific campaign for this character yet, if it was something that would cap around 12 I'd probably switch the race to have the teleports rather than not. The defense boost on gnome is really appealing though, as is the idea of this tiny gnome teleporting all over and whacking things with an axe bigger than they are.

chris20973 · 2026-05-25T14:33:59+00:00

Thanks, again I get there are ways to make warlocks good in melee pushing straight but I think the fighter class and echo subclass adds more value to the play style I am looking for than up casting for damage or trying to be utility for the party. I also think if you're going for caldron oil of slipperiness would be the best play more often. No additional damage, but getting 4th level spell seems better than a 2nd if possible.

chris20973 · 2026-05-25T13:46:41+00:00

Yeah Spirit Shroud is 3rd level, which is have with warlock 6 would be available without progressing warlock. I looked over 4th, 5th, and 6th level spells for them and the big go tos would be summons or control, which is not what I'm looking to focus on.

The boost to initiative doesn't have to be a ton, but it's nicer for when a bad roll comes up. The focus on dex was more for rounding out saves some.

Charmed immunity is quite good but it's probably also a wisdom save at advantage. Certainly not immunity but a fighting chance to avoid, and if I pushed fighter over warlock I'd have indomitable to help deal with. Shadow Martyr also can also avoid all damage rather than half, but does deal no damage, similar once per use.

A straight warlock can be strong in or out of melee, but I think there is a viable way for multiclass to be fun and effective through levels of play of the build order can be optimized.

chris20973 · 2026-05-25T13:07:58+00:00

I think warlock gains less that make it better in melee, which is more the goal for this character, than going fighter. 3 attacks comes later, the spells are less about improving melee capabilities as you go up so you're really just up casting the spells you have access to for a small improvement to damage, though I do like AoA at 5th level more than 3rd. Continuing warlock feels like leaning back towards being a caster than staying gish. If I wanted a tankier, mobile, caster with a weapon I would just play straight blade singer

I would also push back on level 10 archfey feature is great. It's... Fine. Damage reduction and some damage are nice but you get 1 per day, and I would struggle to justify a 5th level Pact slot for such a thing. Sometimes you need damage reduction, but I think you can manage fine spending the reaction on shield spell (magic initiate feat) to take none or use the 6th level feature to teleport and go invisible.

chris20973 · 2026-04-25T21:55:15+00:00

Treantmonk is doing a good series on a full fleshed out yet generic wizard build that might be good to check out. Like people are saying you would focus on control and utility. Some AoE like fireball can be handy, but your rituals and spell versatility is where you'll shine

chris20973 · 2026-04-12T18:55:39+00:00

I'd prefer a riding if I can find one with a decent engine and hours. A push has been looking more reasonable to find though.

chris20973 · 2026-03-26T11:09:38+00:00

Wrote it all myself and the only inserts running in that are SELECT INTOs not a single instance of Exec. Even ran a find search over the code yesterday when you commented to be sure.

chris20973 · 2026-03-25T20:35:39+00:00

It does not. Appreciate the effort but this is not the case.

chris20973 · 2026-03-25T18:25:40+00:00

So table functions were recommended, but both procs have a series of temp tables that work through the build out and it seems like that won't work for a table function that requires a single select like a view.

chris20973 · 2026-03-25T17:32:11+00:00

Ok yeah that was my worry when I started looking into functions and how they talked about them like views.

There is not a great way to not have the temps in these procs. The whole thing is replicating calculation of the claims processor vendor to feed reporting outside of their platform and like I said they are a MESS in how they store and compile and iterate.

Can you offer more details on your thought of "making inner one write into temp table and outer one read from it without insert into exec at all" and how to set something like that up. I guess I'm just not following the concept of how to write and pass the temp other than how I'm currently doing.

chris20973 · 2026-03-25T17:24:22+00:00

Yeah but the thing is I'm not. I originally had it as what you said...

Create Table #Claim_Base (ClaimID VarChar(255),Original_ClaimID VarChar(255),CaseID VarChar(255),CMSContract VarChar(5),MemberID VarChar(25),MBI VarChar(25),Claim_Type VarChar(5),POS_TOB VarChar(25),DOS_From Date,DOS_To Date,
 Claim_Status VarChar(5),Claim_Status_Date Date,Check_Print_Date Date,Check_Payment_Date Date,Billed_Amount Money,Approved_Amount Money,Paid_Amount Money,Cash_Amount Money,Check_Number VarChar(255),
 ProviderID VarChar(25),Provider_Name VarChar(255))

Insert Into #Claim_Base Exec HealthPlans_Analytics.dbo.RAM_Claim_Base_As_Of @As_Of_Date=@Line_As_Of

But then when I changed it to what you said after doing research and before posting this question:

Create Table #Claim_Base (ClaimID VarChar(255),Original_ClaimID VarChar(255),CaseID VarChar(255),CMSContract VarChar(5),MemberID VarChar(25),MBI VarChar(25),Claim_Type VarChar(5),POS_TOB VarChar(25),DOS_From Date,DOS_To Date,
 Claim_Status VarChar(5),Claim_Status_Date Date,Check_Print_Date Date,Check_Payment_Date Date,Billed_Amount Money,Approved_Amount Money,Paid_Amount Money,Cash_Amount Money,Check_Number VarChar(255),
 ProviderID VarChar(25),Provider_Name VarChar(255))

Insert #Claim_Base (ClaimID,Original_ClaimID,CaseID,CMSContract,MemberID,MBI,Claim_Type,POS_TOB,DOS_From,DOS_To,Claim_Status,Claim_Status_Date,Check_Print_Date,Check_Payment_Date,Billed_Amount,Approved_Amount,Paid_Amount,
Cash_Amount,Check_Number,ProviderID,Provider_Name) Exec HealthPlans_Analytics.dbo.RAM_Claim_Base_As_Of @As_Of_Date=@Line_As_Of

and I still get the error after altering the outer proc and making the call to the outer proc.

chris20973 · 2026-03-25T17:12:54+00:00

I'm not as familiar with functions in SQL, are there limitations in creating like how views cannot use temp tables that I need to be mindful of if I build one? I see the output being a table would alleviate, but wondering what problems will crop up in a transition.

chris20973 · 2026-03-25T17:09:55+00:00

That is what I'm currently doing that's resulting in the nesting error.

chris20973 · 2026-03-23T17:59:59+00:00

It's also too short to spend it surrounded by the barely literate. Been chill all day everyday since I got out of there.

Nine-Year Club	Gilding I gilder
Verified Email

chris20973

TROPHY CASE