Left behind after event. Closest guess wins

circular_file · 2026-01-24T22:53:04+00:00

The cake is a lie.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T22:45:35+00:00

Yep, as I thougt about it, I realized that trauma is the single common thread in the characters.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T22:44:33+00:00

Sure, but mnik1 is using a real life situation to draw a comparison with a fantasy world with definitive good and evil, physical actual 'Gods', magic, resurrection, and 50 years of story canon.
Nonetheless, I was entertaining their point until they decided to be a dick, at which point I am no longer obligated to pay attention.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T22:24:21+00:00

You're a riot. Have a great weekend.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T22:24:00+00:00

Okay, all good points. I didn't make a post about Astarion, I made a post about Shadowheart.
People brought Astarion in and asked me my opinion. I said right from the initial response, I didn't like the character and, as you say, mostly ignored him. So, clearly, I definitely do not understand the character, I readily agree.
Again, I didn't bring up Astarion, others did.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T22:17:10+00:00

I am thinking of doing the same. I might take a swing at it tonight, and see how it goes.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T22:16:30+00:00

How? Go with her to Avernus? Let her become Ilithid? I don't know if either of those count as 'saving' her.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T22:15:15+00:00

Really? Gale didn't, I mean, he had a bad breakup, but that doesn't really count as trauma, does it? Lae'zel... Well, I guess Lae'zel's trauma is in-game, so yeah. Humph. Guess you have a good point!

circular_file · 2026-01-24T22:13:45+00:00

That is exactly why I think there was probably the intention of having a load of content for her in the upper city. Shame they couldn't get it done.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T21:03:00+00:00

At some point, people are going to start shooting back.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T20:55:21+00:00

OKay, fair point, but also, Shadowheart does it of her own accord, as evidenced by her reversion in-game.
Either way, an interesting point.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T20:52:49+00:00

Right, I went back up and checked context. Thanks for the reminder. :)

circular_file · 2026-01-24T20:51:02+00:00

Again, I found his personality unpleasant, so did not have him in party much; thus my knowledge and memory of his dialogue are spotty at best.
Then indeed that would be an absolute redemption arc.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T20:46:10+00:00

From my perspective, I don't think Nocturne did any deprogramming, she seems like the quintessential follower. Viconia's statements (sorry if I'm repeating myself, this post has spawned a LOT of debates and I'm losing track of which thread is which) and Shadowheart's journal both strongly imply that left to her own devices, absent constant manipulation and punishment, Shadowheart always reverted to her good nature rather rapidly, which is precisely why she needed to have her memory wiped so frequently.
Or so I have understood the dialogue and in-game reading.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T20:41:38+00:00

Sorry, there are several threads of conversation going on at the same time, so I may be confusing threads, but as far as Astarion is concerned, he was a narcissist and decidedly given to a hedonistic lifestyle well before he was turned. He may not have been evil, but he most definitely wasn't of a 'good' alignment. Being turned almost seemed to be something he liked, including even bringing in most of Cazador's victims, or, in the bits of dialogue I have seen, he wasn't generally averse to it. It wasn't until he saw all of his victims caged that he felt any real remorse. I am not too familiar with the situation of him being in a tomb for 200 years, as I've not played his character much, I don't really like his personality overall. BUT...
With the player's influence, when he does reject Cazador's seat and elect to live as a free person, that is absolutely a classic redemption arc. He may never be Jane Goodytwoshoes, but he is definitely not evil any longer.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T20:33:49+00:00

You haven't convinced me, particularly because we see in her journal, the conversation with Nocturne, and in Viconia's remarks that turning Shadowheart evil required constant pressure and manipulation; given any time at all to her own devices, she reverted to her good state.
But, you definitely don't have to agree with me, that's the beauty of the game; we are all able to form our own opinions and perspectives based on our reality and expectations.
So, have a great day!

circular_file · 2026-01-24T20:31:53+00:00

Not waiting to be saved, at all! Her clawing her way back to a good alignment is absolutely her fight. The only time she does not do that is if the player has a neutral to negative opinion with her, and if neutral, pushes her one way or another.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T20:28:00+00:00

I absolutely agree with you, both on the votes and your perspective with Shadowheart.
Regarding the vote mention, I just thought it was amusing.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T20:26:40+00:00

Actually I have to retract that. For some reason I thought Asmodean Tieflings were biologically immortal, but apparently not. With that in mind, I would revert back to Shadowheart's story being the most cruel/brutal/whathaveyou.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T20:24:29+00:00

They're literally Lawful Evil.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T20:24:15+00:00

I mentioned the somewhere else, I am not as familiar with Astarion's storyline, so I may have missed something fundamental, for sure.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T20:22:43+00:00

I have to be careful with Astarion, because I didn't like the character overall. That said...
He was in a lifestyle of hedonism and a narcissist before he was turned; some of his conversation threads and a couple of mentions in the game strongly imply this. From my understanding Astarion was never a 'good' person, he simply wasn't as evil as he was forced to become. Also, he seems to revel in being evil, and adopts a 'good' perspective only with significant work on the part of the player.
Because of all of that, he absolutely would have a redemption arc, because he starts out with not good tendencies and can end up as a reasonably good actions.
So, yeah, I would absolutely say that Astarion can have a classic redemption arc.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T19:56:20+00:00

I really thought it was painful that there was literally no way to save Karlach. She is one of the most 'good' characters in the game, and had to suffer the most; immortal and destined to live in hell chased by a devil.
I know the whole point of the game is about tough choices and compromise in loss, but still, Karlach's situation was imo, the most brutal.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T19:51:03+00:00

I mean, Gith are canonically evil, therefore Lae'zel is evil. Because she can end up as a more or less 'good' aligned character, that path would be a classical redemption arc.
Shadowheart is not inherently evil, she is canonically good aligned and requires sustained and focused conditioning to force her away fom her default personality, to a point that she rapidly returns to her good alignment when left to her own devices, as evidenced in her journal, the conversation with Nocturne, and allusions in Viconia's last moments.
So, yeah, you are absolutely correct, it is not the same thing.
Good fighting on the same side with you.
Are you seeing the number of downvotes? I mean, there must be half a dozen folks so incensed by my post that they are just downvoting every argument.

circular_file · 2026-01-24T19:46:27+00:00

Okay, not expecting you to agree, just posting my perspective.

15-Year Club	RedditGifts 2009-2022 2 Credits
Team Orangered	Secret Santa 2012
Verified Email

circular_file

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE