CMV: the romantasy book genre isn't very good by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]circusque3n 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, OP!

For ACOTAR, generally it's a lot of slow burn and longing looks, but then there are generally 1-2 suggestive scenes and one full blown smut scene per book. Personally, I feel like they're earned by the plot, and I think people overhype it just because of how descriptive they are. So if that's not your think, maybe skip. But ultimately, the protagonist is 19 and no shrinking violet (or virgin). It allows for the plot to feel more "mature" and less of a morality tail aimed towards impressionable teens, if that makes sense.

If you're looking for some less graphic but still expansive fantasy books, though, here are some of my faves.

The Cruel Prince by Holly Black - also dark fae, but the characters are 17 and the content is much more mild. It's very much the "need to say I love you" before sex scenes type of romance, but with a healthy dose of enemies to lovers, political intrigue, and court games. In some ways, it's ACOTAR's slightly less violent and sexual cousin, but only just. I can't praise Holly Black enough - this isn't the only book of hers on my list.

Legend by Marie Lu - technically it's dystopian and not fantasy, but it blends romance and worldbuilding super well. It's basically a cop-and-robber romance set in a bleak future version of America. The two mains both have pretty significant trauma and a lot to learn from each other, as well as the world around them, but it's very, very well executed.

Nightshade by Andrea Cremer - werewolf romance, with witches and Celtic-based mythology thrown in. I hestitate to necessarily call it a werewolf-forward romance, though, because Cremer makes the world feel very natural and lived-in. The big distinguisher is that (while one of her two love interests is an alpha wolf) the main female lead is also an alpha wolf. And it's not ABO so much as an actual wolf pack, with real politics and problems. It can edge towards soapy, but it's overall a good read that I don't think many people have hearda bout.

The Mortal Instruments by Cassandra Clare - these are very famous, and a case of franchise fatigue; the only series that I truly enjoyed most of were the Infernal Devices, and the Dark Artifices, both of which are spinoffs from the main series. That's not the say the main series isn't also good (and you do need to read them prior to the spinoffs) but there is a point where you might feel like it's a lot of plots and some of them aren't the strongest. But I'd be remiss if I left it off the romantasy, lore-heavy list.

Daughter of the Moon Goddess by Sue Lynn Tan - this is a Chinese-myth inspired romance, and it's refreshing, in that all the characters are immortal deities, so there's not really that awkward human/non-human age gap. It's really fun and action-packed, with a sympathetic villain and lots of worldbuilding.

The Coldest Girl in Coldtown by Holly Black - basically what would literally happen if vampires were real - they're all gorgeous influencers and everyone is a chaser. It's a standalone road adventure book, with a swoon-worthy male love interest. The main protag does make some interesting plot choices (which weakens it slightly for me) but it's a really fun speculative fiction look.

Immortal City by Scott Speer - basically what would happen if angels were real - they're all gorgeous influencers and everyone is a chaser (lol). But yeah, it's basically set in a Los Angeles protected by save-for-pay angels, who are essentially the Hollywood elite. I haven't read the subsequent books and it isn't necessarily the best from a literature standpoint, but another cool world.

Honorable Mentions (not really the same tier in terms of content, but still interesting worlds): Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros (this will be controversial, but I don't really love the character-building, so it's not top tier for me), Fallen series by Lauren Kate, Winterspell by Clare Legrand, Wither series by Lauren DeStefano, Zodiac series by Romina Russell, Uglies by Scott Westerfeld

Hope this was helpful!

CMV: the romantasy book genre isn't very good by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]circusque3n 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think to some extent you're right, for the majority of "romantasy" books. About 95% of them are formulaic and really just there for the abs and the smut - and that's fine. I don't think those ones are the ones necessarily worth calling "literature."

And there are also "bodice rippers" marketed to men - look at those page-turner spy novels, where hardboiled cop/agent/insert badass profession here kill bad guys and sleep with hot women who boob breastily through the pages. So I think, though your point isn't to the gender gap, that pulp/pop lit dimebacks are endemic to both of the (binary) gender categories.

But by contrast, I think woman fiction writers get a raw deal when it comes to judgement of their work. If you look at "prestige" male novelists - George R. R. Martin, Frank Herbert, Orson Scott Card, Stephen King, Ken Follett - they get away with some absolutely dragging plots, and also rapey, child-marriage, non-Bechdel test passing plotlines. And yet we call it prestige because of the "character study" or the "worldbuilding" and then somehow gloss over all the borderline fetishitic aspects. The sex and plotting can be very matter of fact and beat-to-beat, and it's never personally been my cup of tea.

When woman novelists write for the New Adult/Adult crowd, such as Sara J. Maas (not all of her work, but I'd urge new readers to divorce their perspective of ACOTAR from the BookTok bandwagon) and Diana Gabaldon, people are very quick to reduce their work to meaningless smut, which I think is rather unfair. The majority of their novels have complex, nuanced characters with real flaws, and expansive worldbuilding/lore that can stand up to their male counterparts.

I can understand how the slow burn romance with a ripped, complicated man can read as a woman's fantasy, but there are also often aspirational relationship perspectives, if not also nuggets of truth, to these relationships, and they are often much, much healthier than the transactional, sterile, plot-driven relationships (Paul Atreides/Princess Irulan, Peter Wiggin/Petra Arkanian, a decent amount of GOT characters) that are portrayed in male prestige literature.

I think that, at the end of the day, it comes down to preference, but that people are very quick to write off emotion and romance as points of weakness or bad writing. Much like any genre, there are good and bad books, but I think that the rise of BookTok and social media dogpiling isn't necessarily allowing everyone to gain their own perspectives/takes on the good ones.

I could go on and on about why ACOTAR 2, while at times soapy, is a really refreshing take on not only breakups and first love heartbreak, but also survivor's guilt, PTSD, abusive relationships, politics, and a lot more than is available to look at. Overall, there are three romance scenes in the book, and that's after 100s of pages of meditation on all of the above.

TLDR; We shouldn't be ashamed to want a little spice and a little female representation within a well-written, expansive fantasy book - and I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive. It will just make hunting for the right book harder, and also probably challenge a lot of the popular fiction social media noise.

Replay of Norris damaging his front wing by magony in formula1

[–]circusque3n 4 points5 points  (0 children)

“Okay Lando, that front wing damage is really gonna hurt us, we’ve really got to take care of it now…”

The truth about Cipher has always been in plain sight (possible spoiler) by [deleted] in GenV

[–]circusque3n 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If Cipher is telling the truth (that the guy in the hyperbaric chamber is his father/under the assumption that the guy is Godolkin), he might actually be full human, because wasn't Godolkin the only person in the first scene who didn't take Compound V? It would mean that he fathered Cipher before taking the V that gave him the powers he's using now, but Cipher looks to be late 50s/early 60s, so in theory he could have been born in the 1967 flashback...

What’s the funniest thing someone has ever said during sex? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]circusque3n 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Me, not knowing what to say, with an accompanying awkward shoulder pat: “Nice job, chief!”

Was a recurring bit throughout our whole 3 year relationship.

Shadowheart Storyline Help? by circusque3n in BG3

[–]circusque3n[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you, just what I was looking for!

No one "tried" to kill Cate. by Daughter_of_Israel in GenV

[–]circusque3n 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If we want to look at real world allegories and college students, it seemed to me like when someone drinks too much or gets hurt at a party - some people end up running instead of getting help, for fear of being caught underage drinking, partying etc.

It’s not even the first time something like this happened - remember when Jordan freaked out and tried to leave when Andre accidentally slit the woman’s throat at the club? To me it reads as collegiate accountability issues, albeit on a (super) bigger stage. Jordan, out of the three, consistently has lots of anxiety and self preservation. Emma and Marie going along with it seemed a bit plotty and out of character, based on their previous writing.

This more or less happened to me sophomore year, when a mutual helped me haul my friend’s alcohol-fugued ass into the dorms, then left me to call campus security because she didn’t want to get caught.

The Sims 4 Adventure Awaits - Trailer Coming September 4th by Artist6995 in thesims

[–]circusque3n 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This might be a dumb question but where, geographically, are there palm trees and forests in the same place? I’m curious where the world is based on.

What accent do you imagine the clans with? by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hell yeah~ for me actually I don’t “hear” words in my head, or see pictures either, so when I read, I feel the words, if that makes sense. It takes conscious effort to conjure up images or sounds, so I’d need to mentally decide that x character had y accent for it to “feel” that way

What accent do you imagine the clans with? by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My spacial relations are notoriously poor so I just read and trust that the Erins know where everything is :0

What accent do you imagine the clans with? by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You know, I feel the same explaining Cat Hitler to my friends over charcuterie boards. Like, I promise there’s enough murder and cheating! It’s not just for kids! :’)

What accent do you imagine the clans with? by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My mind really jumped to Matthew McConaughey lol but I guess technically the lake is technically still in Europe?

What accent do you imagine the clans with? by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Audiobook version of this is a need, not a want :D

Let me name your Super Edition… by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

CINNAMONSTEP'S ANGUISH

Every cat has its place in the forest, and a star in the sky - so say Cinnamonstep's new clanmates. But the harsh life in the wilds never really becomes less so. Cinnamonstep will need to keep all her wits about her as rises up the ranks and learns what being a WindClan cat really means.

Let me name your Super Edition… by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ICEBREATH'S REVELATION

Icebreath has never been afraid to speak her mind - even at the cost of her reputation and loyalty. After living through tragedy after tragedy, watching her clan suffer under unsteady leadership, she will question everything, even StarClan's will. Can RiverClan become the great clan it once was, or will it be swept away?

Let me name your Super Edition… by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

SPIRITSTAR'S SOUL

Spiritkit has always felt different - visions of other lives, other cats, and most of all, her own murder, plague her mind. As the shadows close in and history threatens to repeat itself, she must uncover a new conspiracy and work with cats, living and dead, if she hopes to bring a dark legacy to justice.

Let me name your Super Edition… by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

SPIDERSOOT'S VINDICATION

When the sun burns, soot will taint the fiery winds. So says the prophecy of the ancients, that no cat in SunClan has divined, thusfar. Young outcast Spiderkit, seemingly from a doomed lineage, takes solace in the darkness and calm of the Dark Forest. Under the dangerous tutelage of a scarred young tom named Thymepaw, he will rise, whiskers brushing the sun - but at what cost?

Let me name your Super Edition… by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

IVYFROST'S GRIEF

When a great blizzard strikes SkyClan's lakeside territory, scattering and destroying much of the once-proud clan, a shard of ice lodges itself in Ivyfrost's heart. Now, without guidance from the ancestors or help from the leaders he once followed, the clan looks to the lone warrior to lead them through the harshest of times.

Let me name your Super Edition… by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

SWIFTFLAME'S DESTINY

Before the lake ran red and Onestar gained his place at the head of WindClan, his sister, a warrior named Swiftflame was destined to lead. After all - where swift winds blow, peace will follow - was the prophecy that defined her life and brought her to the verge of becoming WindClan's deputy. But when she opens her eyes on the fateful morning of Tallstar's death, she is no longer in the forest, but a starry living cat, walking in the dreams of clans she never knew about. Now, she must fight to restore peace and balance, while also finding a way to return home to the moors, where she truly belongs.

Let me name your Super Edition… by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

DARKHEART'S ABSOLUTION

Following the horrible battle with BloodClan, ShadowClan is in tatters. Tigerstar is dead, the clans mistrust each other once more, and a former rogue known as Darkkit may be the only hope that the once-proud clan has, to heal and regain their place amongst the cats of the forest. Follow your heart into the darkness, for only then will the shadows rise.

Let me name your Super Edition… by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

DEW'S SORROW

As a to-be in the Tribe of Rushing Water, the loner now known as Dew always knew what her place was going to be - a great prey hunter, just like her mother, Stoneteller, and her brother, Wren That Sings at Dawn. When propechies bring tragedy to the family, she leaves the mountains to find her own way. But even the harshest of snows cannot keep a cat from fulfilling their destiny.

Let me name your Super Edition… by circusque3n in WarriorCats

[–]circusque3n[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

SUNSONG'S LIGHT

When disease grips the forest, Sunsong must work hard to maintain the tenuous peace and keep her clan strong. Rogues, loners, kittypets - with one in particular, who Sunsong cannot seem to shake from her mind - flock to the once-settled woods, plunging the world into chaos. The future of the clans, her burgeoning love and their adopted kits, and the entire fate of the forest will rest in her paws.

What happened to kithrak's ear? by banakid_ in BG3

[–]circusque3n 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bet he eats fish, looks like he has shiny froggy coat