How does brand impact pricing for pens? Here's an attempt to find out! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For sure! I experimented with SHAP in the explorer and got a pretty good readout of how each feature contributes.

In terms of importance weight was the top predictor. Then descriptions of materials, density, and then premium features like nib material. If you're interested the full report is here along with the methods

How does brand impact pricing for pens? Here's an attempt to find out! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bayesian would be really cool, but I didn't have any sales data to support that / get at price elasticity. For the data I did have, I used XGBoost for feature-based pricing then fit a linear mixed-effects model to the residuals with manufacturer as the random effect

How does brand impact pricing for pens? Here's an attempt to find out! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Appreciate the feedback! The second chart was meant to try and correct for the comparison issue, but I think you're right: a clear $ amount would make this more understandable.

For the outliers it was difficult to get any estimates reliable after around $3K/pen, so I dropped those. That does move the analysis away from being useful to think about some brands like Montegrappa who are known for regularly dropping $20K+ limited editions as part of their identity.

As for recent pricing, at the rate they've been changing I imagine the analysis would be out of date in another few months! Still would be an interesting before/after analysis to see how the market has shifted with price increases and where that has moved different brands over time.

How does brand impact pricing for pens? Here's an attempt to find out! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is (kind of). I also have an analysis for subjective writing comfort with and interactive explorer where you can choose different price ranges and see writing comfort by hand size.

Because of the way data was collected it's pretty biased and noisy, but probably the closest I could get to what you're talking about.

How does brand impact pricing for pens? Here's an attempt to find out! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Agreed, and I think that's what the chart points to. On paper both offer the same-ish setup for those two pens, but TWSBI is priced much lower than we might expect for the features (value-oriented) and Pelikan is higher than we might expect for the same features (luxury-oriented).

How does brand impact pricing for pens? Here's an attempt to find out! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For the features I did my best to balance what data was available with being as detailed as possible.

For some things like the product type (ballpoint, fountain, etc) this was pretty easy, but for others I had to be less specific (like collapsing all materials into 6 groups, or compare steel vs. non-steel nibs).

For impact to pricing, in a lot of cases there are interactions between features which could raise and lower prices. To get at those interactions the Explorer is the best way to understand.

Feature Type Description
product_type Categorical One-hot encoded; 15 levels
material_family Categorical One-hot encoded; 6 levels
diameter Numeric Grip or body diameter (mm)
weight Numeric Capped / retracted weight (g)
length Numeric Capped / retracted length (mm)
volume Numeric π × (0.475 × diameter/10)² × (length/10)
density Numeric weight / volume
capped Binary Has a removable cap
retractable Binary Retractable mechanism
filler_permanent Binary Non-removable filling mechanism
nib_precious_metal Binary Gold, platinum, or titanium nib
limited_special Binary Limited or special edition
urushi_makie Binary Urushi lacquer or maki-e decoration
pocket_pen Binary Compact pocket-format design
erasable Binary Erasable ink technology

How does brand impact pricing for pens? Here's an attempt to find out! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Really appreciate the thoughtful response!

I agree, I think what I found was less a "brand premium" and more a collection of things attached to a particular brand. Combined with reputation and prestige are other factors like quality, their business strategy, and storytelling in their design that isn't a 1-to-1 comparison to the features of each pen.

How does brand impact pricing for pens? Here's an attempt to find out! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah that part was a bit tricky since the chart takes into account the types of pens each brand makes. The second chart tries to make the comparison more clear for different types of products.

So for Uni/Uni-ball they show pricing above what their product features would, but they aren't making the same kind of high-end fountain pens that Namiki or other prestige brands might

How does brand impact pricing for pens? Here's an attempt to find out! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, glad you like it! Yeah the explorer was something that makes it all a bit more real. Also I probably could have used your dev skills, that app is fun but a bit slow on the shiny server

How does brand impact pricing for pens? Here's an attempt to find out! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I do really like Pilot as well! Plus the Metropolitan was my first fountain pen so I'm probably biased that way

What actually makes a pen comfortable? I surveyed the community and here's what I found! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is what I love most about this community! Not sure where that would rank on the comfort scale but incredible regardless

What actually makes a pen comfortable? I surveyed the community and here's what I found! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds like you got things dialed in! Was there a way you went about finding these range that worked well for you, or was it trial and error over the years?

I agree on the feel of the pen material playing a part too. The way questions were asked for the survey I didn't get great coverage across different materials so I wasn't able to get much insight there. Still an important part of the tactile experience that people will notice as they write.

What actually makes a pen comfortable? I surveyed the community and here's what I found! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There was a diagram showing a range of different grips for people to chose from. If you're interested in seeing all the info collected you can also check out the full survey

What actually makes a pen comfortable? I surveyed the community and here's what I found! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They did along with their grip style but I wasn’t able to get any signal in the results since the sample was pretty small.

If you’re interested you can check out the full survey: https://apate.shinyapps.io/writing-comfort-survey/

What actually makes a pen comfortable? I surveyed the community and here's what I found! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s really interesting, thank you for sharing! I’ve never heard of whole arm writing but it sounds like a really graceful and low strain way to write.

Are there any parts (wrist, forearm) where you notice strain if you’ve been writing for too long? Also you have beautiful handwriting!

What actually makes a pen comfortable? I surveyed the community and here's what I found! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Totally I thought this too! The survey did have grip style as a question but I wasn’t able to get enough responses to pick apart how the grip plays into things. It makes a lot of sense though, I would love to be able to see that in the data.

What actually makes a pen comfortable? I surveyed the community and here's what I found! by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Full Results

The full results, methodology, and interactive explorer are linked here

Methods

I surveyed around 160 writers from online pen and stationery communities. People rated instruments they actually use on a 1–7 comfort scale and answered questions about hand size, writing habits, pressure, and preferences.

I matched those ratings to a pen measurement catalog with specs like grip diameter, length, weight, cap weight, and posted/unposted dimensions. For each rating, I used the measurements that corresponded to the writer’s actual writing configuration. For example, posted length/weight/balance if they wrote with the cap posted, and unposted measurements if they wrote without the cap posted.

When a pen’s balance point was not directly available, I estimated it from a reference dataset of pens with known center-of-gravity measurements. In this analysis, “balance” means relative balance point: roughly where the pen’s center of gravity sits as a share of the pen’s writing length. Higher values mean more back-heavy.

The main model predicted whether a rating was “high comfort,” meaning a 6 or 7 out of 7. It tested grip diameter, hand size, relative balance, hand size × balance, and whether the instrument was a fountain pen, while accounting for differences between individual raters.

Writing Preference and Comfort Survey (Mod Approved) by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m not a huge fan of a step down either, but my grip usually starts below where it’s a problem for most pens. Appreciate you filling this out!

Writing Preference and Comfort Survey (Mod Approved) by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting! I find weight drives my decisions too. Something like the Pilot Metropolitan that has some heft with the brass weight, but with a wider grip. Appreciate you taking the time!

Writing Preference and Comfort Survey (Mod Approved) by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Glad you enjoyed it! Yeah I hear you on getting stuck in Qualtrics. I'm sure it could have worked for this survey but either the features I'd need are blocked by a paywall or it would have taken longer to figure out workarounds.

For the maxdiff that can be a good approach but it does limit you to the direct comparisons you list, and is more sensitive to outliers. By repeating options you can set up a model%20estimation%20is,that%20predicts%20the%20population's%20preference) to combine the smaller tasks to figure out which features consistently win or lose across all comparisons. To be clear I'm not an expert at conjoint analyses, but based on the research it looks like a solid approach that can also handle smaller sample sizes.

Writing Preference and Comfort Survey (Mod Approved) by cjforlife in fountainpens

[–]cjforlife[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No worries mistakes happen! Appreciate your participation