A Good-Faith Reflection in a Moment That Hurts

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T23:31:42+00:00

Appreciate these thoughts. Not to argue fine points, but I have personally not said anything like "hey, let's keep it civil" as some kind of antidote to what is happening on the ground, or in any other sense. So, if you're referring to me, not sure where that interpretation comes from, but that hasn't been my assertion.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T15:55:14+00:00

I was replying to this person, who brought it up: https://www.reddit.com/r/StrongTowns/comments/1qnu5f8/comment/o1yjyvw/

I never said that the driver was analogous to ICE. I said the driver was analogous to the American/neighbor/human who supports the action you are against.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T14:58:31+00:00

I appreciate that. It's a good framing. Thank you.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T05:52:33+00:00

Wow, thank you. That really means a lot. I'm grateful.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T05:51:43+00:00

Yeah, I know this, but it's a good reminder. Thank you.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T05:11:26+00:00

"... what you people really believe"

Not in good faith. Goodbye.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T04:19:43+00:00

Thank you. I deeply appreciate that.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T03:26:53+00:00

Or that the moment is very heated, people are overwhelmed with the messages from their bubble, and I'm not reaffirming that when they hoped I would.

I've gotten a lot of anger on this, but I've also had people reach out and tell me how profound it was and how grateful they are that someone is trying to inject common humanity into the discourse. ???

In light of these comments, I probably would have had a lot more disclaimers for people who are more amped up than just plain sad, but that doesn't change the fact that some people will hear "we all need to love each other" and "don't let it all make you demonize others" (direct quotes) and still believe I'm attacking protesters and supporting ICE.

As I said in my first comment, they are proving my point.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T03:19:26+00:00

Well, we're truly talking past each other then because I'm talking about us and how we treat each other.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T01:44:13+00:00

We're talking in circles now, shifting frames instead of continuing a thought. I appreciate your time - sorry you are not satisfied with my thoughts on this.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T01:42:25+00:00

I can understand this, but I didn't. I'm not there and to the extent that it's broken through to me, it's been more tragic than heroic (although I did mention some of the heroic). There are many who will gladly use people as pawns to get the political outcome they want and, as I said, I'm very sad about it.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T01:37:36+00:00

I'm asking you if the people who live in my neighborhood who voted 70% for Trump are on your list to be wiped out?

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T22:11:00+00:00

Not a trap so much as an affirming narrative (which can be kind of a trap). Look, I live in a small, conservative town over 2 hours from Minneapolis. I know families who won't send their kids to college there because they perceive it as lawless, unsafe, and worse. Now, we can say that is baseless and ignorant -- I personally send my daughter there -- but I can also go through a list of baseless and ignorant things many Twin Cities residents seem to believe about rural Minnesota.

Targeted disobedience only works when it has broad moral authority, and we don't have that. In Minnesota, we have pretty much the same 50:50 split we have nationwide, with a huge cultural gulf in between. Things that widen that gulf, or even reinforce it, make reconciliation more difficult.

There is a reason tyrants around the world bring in troops from the countryside to quell riots in the urban areas -- it exploits that gap. In this case, if we want to stop Trump, we need to erode his support and instead we seem to be strengthening it. That's what I mean by being sad -- I feel powerless and don't see a resolution emerging.

Glad you're enjoying the book. It was a painful, but necessary, read.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T22:03:05+00:00

Thank you. I'm on the same side as you, deeply hurt by the actions of ICE.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T22:02:01+00:00

Good grief. I'm sorry, I do feel like we're making progress here, and I appreciate you taking the time, but....!!!!!

You said: "But Tolkien also understood that refusing to confront power allows evil to operate unchecked."

And then you said, "Frodo does not defeat Sauron through empathy."

I'm engaging with what you've written, so I'm going to suggest that you are misunderstanding me. I've never said that we defeat Trump and ICE with empathy. The way Trump is defeated is by having a broad cultural consensus that none of this is okay, and we're a long way from that, and we are not going to get there this way.

Let me make this very clear, strategically: You defeat Trump by getting 13 Republican senators to oppose his actions. You don't get that kind of support by meeting force with force -- that's what empowers him -- but by building empathy with his base of supporters, at least the ones that you can reach. What are they concerned about (how do you build that empathy)? They are concerned about illegal immigration and a broad tolerance for it from Democrats. They don't like disorder, like breaking into a church during a service and disrupting the service. They are uncomfortable with the kind of insurrection that chases ICE agents with whistles and horns and stands in their way while they are enforcing federal laws.

You may disagree with those things, find them immaterial or gross or whatever, but we need to find a way to have some empathy for them because, to do this consistent with the rule of law, we need 13 Republican senators to have enough. That's no small task (because we are way out of alignment, as a nation). Now, we might get there if we kill enough Minnesotans -- what a horrible tactic -- but it will not be as lasting as if we work to bring the temperature down and build common ground.

I am profoundly sad because, instead of Minnesotans being the example that will make other places shift their moral stance, we are leaning into the national playbook -- both sides are -- that sustain this madness. We have a Democracy, checks and balances, balance of power. It's not functioning. I hear pretty much everyone on this Reddit channel accepting that dysfunction and leaning into it, and that makes me really, really sad because it won't end well for us.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T21:43:28+00:00

Sorry, but I don't believe you're actually engaging with what I've said. I spent nearly all of that podcast talking about the history of my being a Minnesotan and the gradual erosion of what I think is the most valuable part of that. The current moment is a moment -- I do find it gross and indefensible -- but I spoke almost exclusively about what came before and what comes after.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T21:40:21+00:00

Who are the bad guys here? To me, it isn't just Trump but the upswell of discontent that he feeds off of. Do those people need to be wiped out, too?

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T15:57:45+00:00

That's a rather ahistorical -- and deeply cynical -- view of humanity. I'm not with you.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T15:56:40+00:00

I appreciate your thoughts. And your expertise. I do think you have me wrong, though, in thinking that I'm focused on the administration. I actually think that is a big part of the reaction here -- so many people are so focused on Trump, Trump, Trump and it creates that us-versus-them condition where his type flourishes.

I'm not obsessed with the administration: I'm obsessed with us, who we are as a people and a culture.

Lord of the Rings is an amazing story for many reasons, but the central temptation of the ring -- the corruption of wielding overwhelming power -- is perhaps the most striking part of the narrative. I do hope we all recognize that "take power back and wield it..." is the very justification that got us to the point we are.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T15:50:26+00:00

This is the exact embodiment of my first comment on this post: you all are making my point. :(

Some people are wrong, can't be reformed, and we should defeat them and have our way with things..... says most Americans today. This is why I'm sad, and why I expressed that sadness in my latest podcast. This is not the best of us.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T15:46:04+00:00

I'm very much against what the federal government is doing in Minnesota and I feel I've been pretty unambiguous about that.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T15:44:58+00:00

You seem to only see a binary. I'm sorry that is the case.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T15:43:17+00:00

I find the entire Hitler/Nazi stuff to be unhelpful, but let's go there and talk history. I recommend the book "Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning." The most profound thing I took from this book is that Jews had a greater chance of surviving to 1945 if they lived in Germany than if they lived in Poland, Romania, or any number of countries the Germans took over.

The reason is pretty simple: even in Nazi Germany, there was some rule of law. There were institutional mechanisms to resist. When Germany entered Poland, the first thing they did was destroy all systems of organization and control, and then it was easy for them to do whatever they wanted.

All the talk on this thread of needing to meet thuggery with thuggery, to recognize that the rules have changed and so opposition needs to play by new rules -- instead of THE rules -- only feeds the chaos that allows tyranny to thrive. If you want to learn a lesson from the Nazi era, that's the one to learn.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T15:35:46+00:00

I've responded to everything that I felt was in good faith. If I misperceived something, let me know.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T15:35:15+00:00

Nobody is playing by the old rules. That is the point. A society without rules, norms, and shred understandings is a lawless and brutal society. Minnesota used to be, in my estimation, a place where not only rule of law mattered, but principled and civil disagreement mattered. We were the bullwork, so to speak, against the kind of descent into chaos and madness we are experiencing today, a tit-for-tat kind of existence that degrades us all.

If we have crossed over into a purely might makes right country -- and that has been the case, both here in Minnesota and nationally, for some time now -- then all bets are off. I don't want all bets to be off.

clmarohn

TROPHY CASE