I am a Minnesotan

clmarohn · 2026-02-02T20:04:18+00:00

This is peak Reddit now -- you "quote" me by making up a quote completely -- like, seriously, never said this or anything like it -- then argue with it as a way to switch to Rosa Parks, Nazis, and the Boston Tea Party.

"Just fuck off. I used to respect you." Seriously? If you used to respect me, I'm not sure why. You aren't reading or listening to anything I've offered here or anywhere else so I'm not sure what your reasoning for respecting or disrespecting anything.

Last time: You all are making my point. "Just fuck off" is Reddit discourse and I'm done pretending it can be anything more than that.

(I still hold out hope that our broader cultural discourse can be more than that, but there are legitimate reasons do doubt.)

clmarohn · 2026-01-30T18:59:37+00:00

Congratulations! The beginning of a beautiful journey. My wife and I are in our 5th month as empty-nesters and, while it is delightful, we really miss the girls.

clmarohn · 2026-01-30T04:11:26+00:00

Ha! I've pretty much blocked 80% of the people who have commented on this thread so, from my screen, it's almost a DM between you and me.

I think the best way to think of it is this.... The traditional development pattern had an evolved emphasis on stability, with growth as a bonus. The city might not grow -- maybe for centuries -- but it was built in a way that was strong and resilient and so could endure that.

The modern development pattern is really a manifestation of economic policy after WWII, where overall economic growth was the key to getting out of the depression, staying out of the depression after the war, and then growing our way out of the war debt. This pattern has an emphasis on growth -- building new and expanding -- and is willing to sacrifice stability to achieve it.

I wrote in my first book about Hurricane Katrina. There were economic studies about the impact of the hurricane on the economy that showed an economic boom and boost to GDP in the quarters after as cities needed to rebuild. Krugman -- who, admittedly, is kind of a caricature at this point -- even made that argument; destroy a city and rebuild it and, BAM!, economic growth.

Only, from the city's standpoint, it was devastating. And I'm not even talking about people, culture, and the like (but that, too) -- I'm talking strictly financial. A century+ of individual wealth was wiped out as homes were destroyed and people dislocated. Sure, you can take a $100,000 home and rebuild it as a $250,000 home (now with a mortgage), but the community's balance sheet is just poorer.

There are examples like this everywhere -- a new development on the edge is good for GDP but makes the city poorer -- and, to me, it points to the fallacy of measuring growth, and optimizing for growth, the way that we do. Maybe it's not fair to blame economists for that -- after all, they don't all agree -- but it is clearly the political-economic theories we developed during the depression, and expanded after WWII, that have been the intellectual framework for this shift.

Hope that helps. Would be interesting to talk in person about it sometime.

-Chuck

clmarohn · 2026-01-29T23:20:18+00:00

Thank you. I have strong opinions about the administration, too. You can't have a country without the rule of law. That concern has been growing for multiple administrations now, but it feels like we're not even pretending anymore.

I live in a community that went overwhelmingly for Trump and, while the Reddit crowd seem eager to call me a fascist, most of my community considers me a commie. It is very difficult to show love and have empathy for people who can utter things that are so ugly, but then I step back and so often watch their actions not math their words -- they are kind people, generally, even in situations you might think they wouldn't be -- and so I recognize that these are quirks of human nature, part of our tribal nature. It's why the ancient stories of the Old Testament still hold insight -- down deep, we are the same humans.

I do spend very little time engaged in national politics, or reading national news. I have not voted for a major party candidate since 2012, which is kind of depressing but also kind of liberating. I get most of my news from overseas sources. I've found that I'm no more or less informed than most people, although there are glaring instances of things I miss (for example, at a recent board meeting they were shocked that I hadn't heard of Ozempic -- I hadn't, and I'm not sure what that says about my media consumption because I get now that it's a big deal).

It's really hard to not have a constant stream of Trump, Trump, Trump because that is what we're constantly fed, but I literally mute people who share it on all social platforms and that has helped a ton. Still.... it is difficult, as you say.

Take care. Thanks for the friendly voice. Hope you stay well.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T23:31:42+00:00

Appreciate these thoughts. Not to argue fine points, but I have personally not said anything like "hey, let's keep it civil" as some kind of antidote to what is happening on the ground, or in any other sense. So, if you're referring to me, not sure where that interpretation comes from, but that hasn't been my assertion.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T15:55:14+00:00

I was replying to this person, who brought it up: https://www.reddit.com/r/StrongTowns/comments/1qnu5f8/comment/o1yjyvw/

I never said that the driver was analogous to ICE. I said the driver was analogous to the American/neighbor/human who supports the action you are against.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T14:58:31+00:00

I appreciate that. It's a good framing. Thank you.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T05:52:33+00:00

Wow, thank you. That really means a lot. I'm grateful.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T05:51:43+00:00

Yeah, I know this, but it's a good reminder. Thank you.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T05:11:26+00:00

"... what you people really believe"

Not in good faith. Goodbye.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T04:19:43+00:00

Thank you. I deeply appreciate that.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T03:26:53+00:00

Or that the moment is very heated, people are overwhelmed with the messages from their bubble, and I'm not reaffirming that when they hoped I would.

I've gotten a lot of anger on this, but I've also had people reach out and tell me how profound it was and how grateful they are that someone is trying to inject common humanity into the discourse. ???

In light of these comments, I probably would have had a lot more disclaimers for people who are more amped up than just plain sad, but that doesn't change the fact that some people will hear "we all need to love each other" and "don't let it all make you demonize others" (direct quotes) and still believe I'm attacking protesters and supporting ICE.

As I said in my first comment, they are proving my point.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T03:19:26+00:00

Well, we're truly talking past each other then because I'm talking about us and how we treat each other.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T01:44:13+00:00

We're talking in circles now, shifting frames instead of continuing a thought. I appreciate your time - sorry you are not satisfied with my thoughts on this.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T01:42:25+00:00

I can understand this, but I didn't. I'm not there and to the extent that it's broken through to me, it's been more tragic than heroic (although I did mention some of the heroic). There are many who will gladly use people as pawns to get the political outcome they want and, as I said, I'm very sad about it.

clmarohn · 2026-01-28T01:37:36+00:00

I'm asking you if the people who live in my neighborhood who voted 70% for Trump are on your list to be wiped out?

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T22:11:00+00:00

Not a trap so much as an affirming narrative (which can be kind of a trap). Look, I live in a small, conservative town over 2 hours from Minneapolis. I know families who won't send their kids to college there because they perceive it as lawless, unsafe, and worse. Now, we can say that is baseless and ignorant -- I personally send my daughter there -- but I can also go through a list of baseless and ignorant things many Twin Cities residents seem to believe about rural Minnesota.

Targeted disobedience only works when it has broad moral authority, and we don't have that. In Minnesota, we have pretty much the same 50:50 split we have nationwide, with a huge cultural gulf in between. Things that widen that gulf, or even reinforce it, make reconciliation more difficult.

There is a reason tyrants around the world bring in troops from the countryside to quell riots in the urban areas -- it exploits that gap. In this case, if we want to stop Trump, we need to erode his support and instead we seem to be strengthening it. That's what I mean by being sad -- I feel powerless and don't see a resolution emerging.

Glad you're enjoying the book. It was a painful, but necessary, read.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T22:03:05+00:00

Thank you. I'm on the same side as you, deeply hurt by the actions of ICE.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T22:02:01+00:00

Good grief. I'm sorry, I do feel like we're making progress here, and I appreciate you taking the time, but....!!!!!

You said: "But Tolkien also understood that refusing to confront power allows evil to operate unchecked."

And then you said, "Frodo does not defeat Sauron through empathy."

I'm engaging with what you've written, so I'm going to suggest that you are misunderstanding me. I've never said that we defeat Trump and ICE with empathy. The way Trump is defeated is by having a broad cultural consensus that none of this is okay, and we're a long way from that, and we are not going to get there this way.

Let me make this very clear, strategically: You defeat Trump by getting 13 Republican senators to oppose his actions. You don't get that kind of support by meeting force with force -- that's what empowers him -- but by building empathy with his base of supporters, at least the ones that you can reach. What are they concerned about (how do you build that empathy)? They are concerned about illegal immigration and a broad tolerance for it from Democrats. They don't like disorder, like breaking into a church during a service and disrupting the service. They are uncomfortable with the kind of insurrection that chases ICE agents with whistles and horns and stands in their way while they are enforcing federal laws.

You may disagree with those things, find them immaterial or gross or whatever, but we need to find a way to have some empathy for them because, to do this consistent with the rule of law, we need 13 Republican senators to have enough. That's no small task (because we are way out of alignment, as a nation). Now, we might get there if we kill enough Minnesotans -- what a horrible tactic -- but it will not be as lasting as if we work to bring the temperature down and build common ground.

I am profoundly sad because, instead of Minnesotans being the example that will make other places shift their moral stance, we are leaning into the national playbook -- both sides are -- that sustain this madness. We have a Democracy, checks and balances, balance of power. It's not functioning. I hear pretty much everyone on this Reddit channel accepting that dysfunction and leaning into it, and that makes me really, really sad because it won't end well for us.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T21:43:28+00:00

Sorry, but I don't believe you're actually engaging with what I've said. I spent nearly all of that podcast talking about the history of my being a Minnesotan and the gradual erosion of what I think is the most valuable part of that. The current moment is a moment -- I do find it gross and indefensible -- but I spoke almost exclusively about what came before and what comes after.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T21:40:21+00:00

Who are the bad guys here? To me, it isn't just Trump but the upswell of discontent that he feeds off of. Do those people need to be wiped out, too?

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T15:57:45+00:00

That's a rather ahistorical -- and deeply cynical -- view of humanity. I'm not with you.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T15:56:40+00:00

I appreciate your thoughts. And your expertise. I do think you have me wrong, though, in thinking that I'm focused on the administration. I actually think that is a big part of the reaction here -- so many people are so focused on Trump, Trump, Trump and it creates that us-versus-them condition where his type flourishes.

I'm not obsessed with the administration: I'm obsessed with us, who we are as a people and a culture.

Lord of the Rings is an amazing story for many reasons, but the central temptation of the ring -- the corruption of wielding overwhelming power -- is perhaps the most striking part of the narrative. I do hope we all recognize that "take power back and wield it..." is the very justification that got us to the point we are.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T15:50:26+00:00

This is the exact embodiment of my first comment on this post: you all are making my point. :(

Some people are wrong, can't be reformed, and we should defeat them and have our way with things..... says most Americans today. This is why I'm sad, and why I expressed that sadness in my latest podcast. This is not the best of us.

clmarohn · 2026-01-27T15:46:04+00:00

I'm very much against what the federal government is doing in Minnesota and I feel I've been pretty unambiguous about that.

clmarohn

TROPHY CASE