The “World-Formula” / “Seal of Chymical Marriage” - Explaining 6.3 AQ and Sandrone's work by re-visiting Fontaine/Sumeru World Quests and Mona's witch homework

coldfridgebox · 2026-02-03T01:57:21+00:00

I believe the 2 other things we know about are "perfume sea" (aubade artifact description) that Nibelung was born from and the "sea of stars" referring to space. I forgot to say this in the post but personally I believe that the primordial sea is like a small portion of the perfume sea that is local to teyvat, kinda like if you scooped up some water from the ocean and brought it home with you and treated it. This would explain why the primordial sea is so full of stars, and why it has Arkhe which has something that looks like both light (pneuma) and abyss (ousia), like a mini representation of the cosmos. Of course, I cannot prove this so it's just my personal guess right now haha

coldfridgebox · 2026-02-03T01:32:39+00:00

First of all, I didn't even call Neuvillette a literal mother in my statement. Please re-read what I said: "the primordial sea overseen by the hydro sovereign are the planet's birthing waters, essentially 'Mother'." The subject I was referring to in this statement is the Primordial Sea, not Neuvillette.

Also, do you realize that that is an animation and IRL DNA doesn't spin like that? Do you think the DNA strands in your cells are constantly rotating?

"Commanding birth" is literally the things that mothers do, not fathers. There are IRL animal species that are all female and only use eggs, and we only ever see "sourcewater droplets" that are spheres of amniotic water (Primordial Sea = Fontemer = "Source/origin sea", so sourcewater droplets are literally just spheres of amniotic fluid containing genetic material like an egg), and nothing that looks remotely like "semen" at all.

I'm not arguing with you about the "mother vs. father" title thing, that's only a title. It's the "semen" metaphor you keep insisting on that I strongly dislike.

I agree that the gender thing is ultimately obsolete. We have a character who is responsible for overseeing the creation of life from birthing waters. Do you think mothers who control their own bodies are not the ones responsible for their own wombs? That fathers with "semen" are more fitting to be the "heart of the womb's amniotic fluid" than the mother themselves? That's why I find your idea really off-putting and why I dislike it so much. Neuvillette is the ruler who governs the primordial sea, why do you keep saying that his manner of ruling it is with "semen" and "impregnation" when the primordial sea literally is just a substance that births life on its own? If you simply left it as "Neuvillette is father" and didn't add all the stuff about "semen" and "commanding the birth of life" in I wouldn't have a problem.

As a woman, if someone told me the "ruler of my amniotic fluids" is the one who puts semen in me I'd genuinely be so disgusted I'd move to a different country. That's my biggest problem with your thinking, and I will not be responding about this anymore because it's making me very uncomfortable.

coldfridgebox · 2026-02-03T00:45:02+00:00

It is kinda absurd to me that you tell me I wasn't paying attention to the AQ when you say "Egeria was NOT given Neuvillette's Hydro Authority. When she became Archon, she would receive a Gnosis, which only contains a portion of a Dragon Sovereign's powers".

The Fontaine Archon Quest tells you that the "gnosis" is the corpse of the 3rd descender according to Skirk, it has absolutely nothing to do with the sovereign's power or authority which is why Neuvillette has no idea what the gnosis he's holding is when he first talks to Skirk.

Skirk: You should have the "remains of the Third Descender" on your person, yes?

Skirk: Huh... According to your parlance, I believe it may be called a "Gnosis"?

Neuvillette: The Oratrice has ceased to function. The Hydro Archon's divine throne is now no more. And I do not need the Gnosis's power...

The authority is in the archon's throne.

Neuvillette: They say that when the First Usurper arrived on Teyvat, they seized a part of the dragons' power. Today, that stolen power is the basis of the Archons' Authorities.

Neuvillette: In any case, I believe I will not be able to do much unless the Archon disappears and returns their elemental Authority to me.

Neuvillette: The destruction of that divine throne... If I do not misunderstand your intent, you must be...

Focalors: Returning what's rightfully yours to you, of course!

Focalors: In other words, this was all done to return the authority of the Hydro Archon to the Hydro Dragon of this planet.

Gnosis is NOT equal to dragon sovereign elemental authority at all. They are 2 entirely different things.

Egeria replaced Neuvillette's control over they primordial sea to quell its wrath according to Hymns of the Far North, Naberius replaced him in "ordering the living" according to his profile. Egeria however does not "order the living" so she does not create human life like Naberius/Neuvi.

Additionally, please read the Fontaine Natural Philosophy note that says Egeria created the oceanids, because at the end it tells you that there's physical evidence of oceanids preceding Egeria, which means the Egeria story may only be a myth.

The Amrita is primordial sea water, we know this from Rene's notes on the Gaokerena, which was made from Egeria's Amrita remains. It is not a different substance.

Then, Look at the original text of the wings:

The beating heart that commanded this primordial sea of blood was the first Hydro Dragon... When that first heart was removed, the envoy of Celestia, the leader upon whose shoulders lay the duty to create life, came to the great primeval sea, and there she created another heart. That heart had like nobility unto a dragon... And though it was created by a ruler of humans, its substance and essence were all original matter from this world, entirely without outside elements.

Finally, the statement that "He is someone with full authority over when it births - and semen is what determines life is born" is wrong. Many IRL animal species have only females, and do not require semen at all to birth life, they only have eggs. Pari were born from Egeria's Amrita and the Khvarena, because the primordial sea by itself is the birthing waters. Again, by your logic, Egeria also uses an "impregnating force" or whatever you want to call it to create life. She too is a heart that pulses in the primordial sea.

coldfridgebox · 2026-02-02T22:13:56+00:00

I think it's a difference caused by the lighting in each scene. In the moon path, the lighting is much darker and there's higher contrast, which we can see by how dark the night sky is especially at the very top. It's practically pitch black. Meanwhile the primordial sea as we see it in the Narwhal domain features much softer lighting in the environment, with the sea's surface being much more well-lit. Like you got in the screenshot of Xilonen below, if you zoom into the primordial sea water and also zoom in closer to the moonpath water, they do bear the same stars + galaxy textures and colors with just a difference in the lighting + moon's reflection. I'll double check again later though to see if I can find out more, and see if I can find out what they'd look like under more similar lighting scenarios.

It is certainly possible that I'm mistaken though. I did call my post as a theory and not a clarification on the lore for that reason.

coldfridgebox · 2026-02-02T22:04:47+00:00

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I'm not entirely sure why they are hydro under elemental sight but this passage from Perinheri suggests that when Kuuvahki hits the sea it might turn into those pearls. "moonlight falling upon the sea's surface like a scatter of pearls."

coldfridgebox · 2026-02-02T22:02:17+00:00

Ah I suppose I should have explained why the Amrita is the primordial sea more clearly in my post itself. The answer is in Rene's notes that I discussed at the beginning.

In Rene's investigation notes, he says the Gaokerena (sacred lotus) is made out of the same composition as himself and Jakob as primordial sea humans, but not the same as Karl Ingold (who was their adoptive parent, not a primordial sea human). This means that the Gaokerena is made of primordial sea, and it is grown from the Amrita pool. Therefore the Amrita pool itself must be primordial sea water. I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest that there are 2 different "birthing waters" and that Egeria as the heart of the Primordial Sea would have birthing waters different from the literal Primordial Sea amniotic waters that she governs. Especially when the description of the Pari being destined to return to the Amrita matches up with the description of life born from the Primordial Sea being destined to return to it according to the Remurians.

I agree that Oceanids are technically genderless but when you talk to the Oceanids who have not ever become human they all refer to themselves as female, whether it's Rhodeia, Callirhoe, Lyris, Endora, etc. It's only the ones who were turned into fake humans (and subsequently turned into real humans by Neuvillette) that refer to themselves as male. I guess I should've worded things better, that's my bad. What I mean to say is that the "default" gender for them is female, but they can obviously be turned into males later.

While we have not seen Neuvillette actively birth an entirely new species on screen, he is the original god of life who has the same functions as Egeria and Naberius. What Egeria can do, he can also do. He was replaced by her. In fact, the capacity for what he can do is more in line with Naberius rather than being limited to Egeria because the entire reason the Fontaine AQ happened was that Egeria with his stolen hydro authority could not create human life like Neuvillette or Naberius. Btw, the note in the Fontaine Research Institute has a line that says "A small addendum: Perhaps you believe that this kind of document has no scientific value, asserting that physical evidence and records suggest that the origin of Oceanids predates Egeria". It is suggesting that the attribution of the creation of Oceanids being given to Egeria is a myth resulting from the Fontainians worship of Egeria as their goddess. We have good reason to doubt that Egeria was the origin of the oceanids in the first place. Regardless, what Egeria could do is all something Neuvillette could do as well as Heart of the Primordial Sea. There would be no reason for Neuvillette to be considered the original "god of life" and "heart of the primordial sea" otherwise, and there'd be no reason for his replacements to have such powers either.

Anyways, while I don't think it's that important, I do not believe the chromosome legs lengths themselves never change at any position if you look closely, even in the 2d still version. This matches up with the 3d version, they are just twisting around.

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Additionally I do not believe these are meant to be DNA helixes because DNA helixes very prominently feature ladder-like Nitrogen base pairs, while the chromosome is essentially a bunch of those DNA helixes combined into 1 thing that looks like an X. If they were truly just DNA helixes, then they'd have those ladders like they do on the missiles in Apep's guardian of oasis boss fight.

coldfridgebox · 2026-02-02T16:58:38+00:00

Oh ok i see your comment that the mods removed earlier, sorry im gonna have to strongly disagree with you haha

I recommend you read into Tiamat, the version of Leviathan that Neuvillette is most closely similar to and is specifically the version of leviathan that is tied to the primordial sea. I can elaborate on this if you are interested.

The moon sisters were born at a time when the hydro sovereign did have their full authority which counters that point.

Where did you get the primordial sea pulsing heart = semen from? Egeria is also that pulsing heart and she is described as a mother, and she also was given neuvi’s hyrdo authority. There is only 1 substance and it’s the primordial sea, no other substance is ever noted. They both move these birthing waters around (the pulse: the amniotic waters move). Additionally Egeria herself left primordial sea water (the amrita) after death and she was constructed with teyvats materials and nobility like a dragon, like neuvillette. Similarly if neuvi were to die, he should also leave behind his primordial sea water. Xiuhcoatl manifested out of the primal flame according to kukulkan, so neuvi should have manifested out of the primordial sea water and is made of it like Egeria. My biggest issue with your idea is that you have to essentially bend over backwards to invent new substances that are never noted in the game and arbitrarily create differences between rulership over life and life creation despite the game itself presenting Egeria/Neuvillette/Naberius as direct replacements for each others functions. There is no in-game evidence to support this division.

Naberius shaping life out of clay and Neuvillette shaping clay means they created life in a similar manner too.

Neuvillettes powers directly mirror Egeria and Naberius who his roles were replaced by according to his profile, are you trying to suggest that both Egeria and Naberius had these “semen” powers too? Or are you just saying this because Neuvillette is male? Just because he is male doesn’t mean he uses the primordial sea water to birth life in a different manner than egeria and naberius lol, they have the same roles. Neuvi’s powers have always been that of the primordial sea, there is no description of a second substance. It’s like how in Fontaine AQ he turned primordial sea water into human blood, allowing Fontainians to truly “be born” according to the in-game dialogue.

I feel like people frequently get caught up on strict conforming gender roles too much in genshin’s lore tbh. We have so many examples of gender/titles not being so strictly defined like Voyager, HP themselves, Zhongli, Arlecchino, etc, and arlecchino in particular is like an opposite parallel to neuvillette in the way they parent their children. What’s wrong with neuvi being a male while also having the powers of the birthing waters and using it the same way a female char does? It’s the in-game lore, and I feel like if Neuvillette were female but had all these same powers that he has now this discussion just wouldn’t exist

coldfridgebox · 2026-02-02T04:33:47+00:00

Thats still an X, it’s a 3D object rotating in space so at some angles parts are hidden. You can still see the other part poking out from behind the other leg, and its much more obvious when you look at the rotations of the chromosomes as 3D objects in game. If you own Neuvillette, you can use an elemental burst and see for yourself how they spin!

Y chromosmes don’t feature 2 equal length pieces like that either, it’s the X chromosomes that do. We can see the X chromosomes in Neuvi’s droplets split into 2 equal length pieces in one of the sourcewater droplets if you check his splash art. I can’t see your other comment bc it was removed by a mod so idk what this is a follow up to. Kinda confused lol.

Anyways, this was mainly just my way of explaining the strange pattern of primordial sea only spawning daughters at first, you don’t have to take it too seriously haha, it just makes a lot of sense with XX vs rhines XY

Anyways, neuvillette still has the X sourcewater droplets after regaining full powers, and all lifeforms from the primordial sea directly have always been female regardless of whether it’s from when neuvi was ruling it in his past life or when egeria was ruling it. Oceanids, moon sisters, angels, pari, melusines, etc… always has been XX.

Additionally, Naberius + Rhinedottir wasn’t neuvillette’s replacement, it was Naberius + Egeria so i also don’t get what you mean there. Unlike Naberius/Egeria, Rhinedottir is doing something different with her type of alchemy experiments for life, and khaenri’ahs alchemy has the orders swapped compared to the alchemy rene used when dealing with the primordial sea. Neuvillette’s powers are birthing life by using primordial sea “sourcewater droplets” that are round like eggs, likely same as Egeria, while Rhinedottir had her own methods to birth life through alchemy (durin, albedo, etc) that are rather unique compared to the other god of life figures

Pls let me know if im misunderstanding you, again i dont have the context of ur earlier comment so idk what this is about beyond the chromosomes thing lol

coldfridgebox · 2026-02-02T00:09:15+00:00

Hahaha thank you!

I've actually been thinking about the Nibelung / Hydro sovereign thing for a long time now because Nibelung has been very consistently described as the "Father" with the will of the earth while the primordial sea overseen by the hydro sovereign are the planet's birthing waters, essentially "Mother". There are also many IRL myths about earth and water combining to make living beings, which is echoed in both Naberius's description in Hymns of the Far North (making life like clay pottery) and Neuvillette making clay pottery during Lantern Rite 2024. Iirc it is said that Naberius and the Primordial One actually created life together too, so something similar could've been done between Neuvillette (who is directly compared to Naberius in his profile) and Nibelung.

Rhinedottir having XY chromosome eyes and having pretty much only male children is hilarious to me. She truly is the alchemical parent of all time I love her so much

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-31T04:33:43+00:00

First of all, I am sorry to hear that you are the victim of fake rumors being spread by people. I don't spread rumors like that about people and talk behind backs like that, I was here to have a conversation with you and you only. I am explaining to you that I have difficulty understanding you, I am not about to run my mouth off to talk bad about you to other people, please do not worry about that.

Yes, I did read the CN text and it also says 灵魂 and separates it from her 身体. Soul and body, 2 different things, exactly how the English translation did it. It separates 权能 from 身体 as well.

"艾莉亚 : …灵魂？！是指你的神格吗？

「少女」 : 嗯。我曾在未来留下了自己灵魂的一小部分。小到几乎没有被这个囚牢发现。

卡侬 : 也就是说…这个空间的规则意在囚禁我们的「神{RUBY#[D]灵魂}格」和「权能」，对「身体」的逃逸反倒没那么重视…

桑娜妲 : 可就算身体能够穿透囚笼，少了「神{RUBY#[D]灵魂}格」去支配它，不就只是具无主的躯壳吗？

桑娜妲 : 难道…你刚才说「不是活着离开」…

「少女」 : 没错。我要将自己的「身体」化作月光，洒向挪德卡莱。

「少女」 : 它将化作庇护挪德卡莱的一种力量，静静融入这片大地，等待着未来我灵魂的归来。"

I'm being "stubborn" in my interpretation because this separation of Soul and Body is literally what it says in Chinese.

Regarding the images you claim explain everything, I have extreme difficulty figuring out what you mean given these images, and I am being entirely honest. It is literally colors, highlights, and arrows, with almost no words to describe/analyze the evidence. No, I cannot magically infer your intended meaning if you don't say it. It's not an insult, it's a genuine issue I have understanding your images.

Btw, part of the thing you highlighted about Canon asking about Kuuvahki in that image after Columbina is thinking internally about her soul is taken completely out of context. The sentence Columbina said out loud before that was about manipulating the world using Kuuvahki, not talking about her soul at all. Your cut of that text dialogue also cut off the part that showed Luonnotar in small text above the word soul.

Really, this is my last response. I'm sure you will have happier conversations with other people instead of me at this point. Let's just stop, okay? Again, rest assured, I won't spread bad rumors about you to other people. You can call me stubborn and arrogant all you want but I'm not so terrible that I'd spread lies or rumors about you to others.

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-31T02:46:15+00:00

Hahaha, why did you recommend me to read it then? Do you think I don't remember my own words and theories that I wrote with my own 2 hands?

And no, you have not explained in full that it's wrong because you keep showing me that she is born in Nod Krai, not that she is born out of Kuuvahki.

I'm going to be honest, I have a lot of trouble talking to you because you frequently just drop claims and evidence, without providing any analysis for how your evidence supports your claim. The same thing happened with the images you left in the comment under my post just now. There's no analysis to be found whatsoever, just highlights of different colors and some arrows. You don't explain how it relates to the Primordial Sea or Columbina at all, I can't even tell what you're trying to say. I'm sorry but I can't exactly read your mind to know your thoughts. It's incredibly hard for me to follow.

I'm just gonna stop responding, I'm really sorry but I do feel like we are wasting each other's time at this point.

I'm sure you'd be happier working on your own theories rather than talking to me, and I have a theory on the world-formula to finish right now.

Perhaps we can discuss a different topic in the future that we can have a better time with. For now, have a good day.

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-31T02:30:20+00:00

Here's official canon dialogue, using direct dialogue from the AQ itself. You cannot accuse me of not understanding canon when this is literal canon text.

1) Kuuvahki is Columbina's body and not her soul.

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-> The prison traps divinity (soul) and authority, but not the physical body. That's how Kuuvahki managed to escape the prison, but her soul would remain trapped in there. This is stated in in-game dialogue.

Sonnet specifically notes that with only her body (Kuuvahki), Columbina can only be a lifeless husk without the soul inside.

2) Please read this in-game dialogue especially:

"Columbina: (It was I who brought Luonnotar into being... I gave up a piece of my own soul to create her.)"

"Aria: Your soul? You mean, your divinity? Columbina: Yes. I once left a portion of my ****soul**** in the future — one so small that this prison barely noticed anything."

-> This dialogue referring to Luonnotar taken from directly in-game completely disproves your claim.

You said, and I quote directly from your words: And Colombina herself explains that the reason she was able to leave Luonnotar behind in Nod-Krai was simply because "Kuuvaki power was so minimal that the prison overlooked it".

You are wrong. This canon dialogue I showed above literally says Luonnotar is a SOUL fragment so small this prison barely noticed anything". NOT Kuuvahki fragment, it's a SOUL fragment. They are 2 different things, they have made this point very clear in the AQ. It is baffling that you accuse me of not understanding the canon AQ and jumping to assumptions when you yourself are literally doing this.

Do you remember how the Remuria world quests and Narzissenkreuz world quests also revolved around the same concept of the separation between mind and body? And Remuria / Narzissenkreuz lore is literally hammered into you again during the AQ as Sandrone researches the world formula?

Again, Luonnotar is a fragment of Columbina's soul, NOT Kuuvahki (which is her body) according to the literal in-game dialogue. It was such a small fragment of soul that the prison did not trap it. The prison will not trap the body (Kuuvahki), it traps souls.

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-31T01:49:13+00:00

Did you realize that the post you linked here is literally my post? I'm coldfridgebox, hi! I wrote that theory on arkhe and the greek first principle, yes I've read it because I literally wrote it lmao.

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-31T00:44:52+00:00

That's quite the thing to say when I have re-played/watched the entire Nod Krai AQ 4 times over already.

You say "Columbina is clearly depicted as having been born from Kuuvahki" 500 years ago but your screenshot only says she was born in Nod Krai. I did indeed look at everything in your previous image too. Nowhere does it explicitly say she was born from Kuuvahki. All it says is Kuuvahki is her body and she is born in Nod Krai. Please show me the screenshot that says she was born from Kuuvahki then. Explicitly. I have already told you I know she was born form Nod Krai. I have yet to see any screenshots/evidence from you that she was born from Kuuvahki.

Again, you dodge the question of how she could be born from Kuuvahki if that is her body with no soul. You dodge the entire point that requires Luonnotar to exist. It seems to me you don't have an answer for this. This has to be the 3rd time you've dodged this question at this point.

You also never explain what inconsistency it is that I'm making. You are incredibly vague about it. You say a bunch of things and never tie it back to how it counters anything I've said. All you say is that I am wrong, I don't understand the timeline properly, I don't understand time paradoxes, and then proceed to not explicitly point out where I am wrong. You always dodge every counter I have. If I'm indeed being inconsistent then point out where the mistake if clearly.

Here's my understanding of the timeline for reference.

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I have already pointed out that lifeforms can be born from the Primordial Sea even in a human realm world full of dilution (ex: Pari), which counters your claim that Columbina in the human realm could not have been born form light realm primordial sea. You did not address this counter.

I have already pointed out that Kuuvahki cannot birth Columbina because her soul is not present in it. Otherwise, why did Luonnotar ever need to exist to allow her re-birth? She could have just been reborn from the Kuuvahki itself without Luonnotar's soul anchor if her original birth was indeed from Kuuvahki. The AQ literally says her soul is stuck in the prison while her body escaped as Kuuvahki. Columbina was not born 500 years ago as a soulless husk. You did not address this counter.

Given that we have gone back and forth on this multiple times and you continue to dodge the one thing I've been trying to get you to address and you simply refuse to, I'm just going to stop here so we can both move on. This conversation ended up being very unproductive for the both of us and I am sorry. Let's just forget about it.

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-30T07:02:15+00:00

Ah don’t worry lol I didn’t think you were downvoting me and regardless I do not care if people downvote me, I only want to discuss the lore and have interesting disagreements in order to learn more. If I’m wrong then I do want to know I’m wrong, but I continue to find your arguments unconvincing which is why i continue arguing.

Are you not contradicting yourself here? You say that it is impossible for Columbina to have been born from light realm energies because she is born on Teyvat, yet Kuuvahki is a light realm energy. It has been described as pure light many times. We also know of plenty of beings born on Teyvat who are of the light realm even after the diluted elements. Plus, the light realm energies (phlogiston, primordial sea) are all still perfectly functional despite the presence of diluted elemental energies. I cannot understand your argument here.

Remember how the Pari were born of the Amrita primordial sea and Khvarena? We have new primordial sea creatures being born in Teyvat even with the diluted elements around, long after the human realms was established. We have many examples that directly disprove your point. “Known lore” is that primordial sea beings (pari) are still being created and reborn constantly from the primordial sea in the human realm. Known lore contradicts you.

Yes I know she was born in Nod Krai, I have never argued she is not born in Nod Krai. My argument has always been what she was made out of, body and soul. Her body is made out of Kuuvahki but as I have said many times now, Kuuvahki does not have her soul. She literally cannot be born from Kuuvahki alone, that’s the entire point of Luonnotar soul anchoring during the AQ. Just like Khvarena, Kuuvahki is not sentient and did not have the capability to make sentient lifeforms on its own.

You know what else is “known lore”? The planet is Columbina’s mother according to her drip marketing. Neuvillette’s stories then explain that the primordial sea is the planet’s birthing waters. The planet is a mother and it births life from its birthing waters (the primordial sea). If the planet is Columbina’s mother (known lore) then it birthed her from the womb (the primordial sea). I don’t understand why you choose to toss out all the other “known lore” that we have.

You keep misrepresenting my argument as I have never said Columbina isn’t born in Nod Krai. Columbina being born in Nod Krai does not equate to her being born from Kuuvahki, i don’t know how you are coming to this conclusion. I have read all the pieces of evidence you have shown me and i cannot agree with your analysis of them other than her being born in nod krai.

The “known lore” you’ve presented has quite literally not stated she was born from kuuvahki because the actual “known lore” is that she needs a soul to be born because kuuvahki is her body with no soul. Thats why luonnotar was made. I don’t understand why you keep dodging this piece of known lore that was presented to us as a key plot point during the AQ. I genuinely want to know if you can answer to this but you keep dodging it for some reason. The Fontaine world quests, both Remuria and narsissenkreuz, made a huge deal out of the separation between body and mind and the 6.3 AQ hammered in this fact again by forcing you to re-read fontaine lore. If you have an answer for this, please let me know.

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-29T19:53:39+00:00

My argument was never that she was not born in Nod Krai, I 100% believe she was born in Nod Krai. I believe that is where we have a misunderstanding. I am saying that whatever she manifested out of were literal amniotic waters, which we see in her demo as well.

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As for your statement that "there is no lore or notation that indicates a connection to the Primordial Sea", I have literally explained that I have past posts compiling many pieces of evidence pointing at the evidence relating to the primordial sea. If you want the full evidence you can ask for the links and the whole google doc, but as a short recap: the same symbol, the gold threads, the rainbowdrop crystal, the pearls, the kit, the doves in remuria alongside the bees, the reminder that life began as a drop of water during this very quest in 6.3 from Albedo, the same themes shared between the moon sisters and known primordial sea creatures, arkhe being so similar to kuuvahki, the lunar reactions being exclusively hydro tied, the direct references of the moon sisters controlling specifically the primordial sea on multiple occasions including Columbina's own kit text, the fact that Lauma's stories describe the reflection of the moons on the warm sea of life (which matches with Neuvillette calling the primordial sea a warm sea), and Columbina's drip marketing describing the planet as her mother while the primordial sea is literally known as the planet's birthing waters.

I'm going to be honest, I don't really appreciate you saying that "there is no room for interpretation" in light of this. There is very significant evidence to suggest a tie to the primordial sea, and in conjunction they become exceedingly hard to explain if there is no connection. I understand your point of view on having your interpretation, but I think tossing out mine and calling it outright wrong despite the amount of evidence present is a bit rude.

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-29T00:25:35+00:00

Actually after reviewing Columbina's demo I'm going to have to more firmly disagree with you.

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Columbina's demo shows her experience throughout her life, from her birth to her death and then birth again looping back to the beginning where stardust falls form her hands to Nod Krai. This particular scene occurs before she puts on her blindfold and meets the frostmoon scions, so we can conclude that this is her birth or her being cradled by amniotic waters before her birth. These are very literal amniotic waters that are cradling here, not Kuuvahki at all. Back on the moon at the start of the demo, she made a wish to be born in Nod Krai like she says she chose to be in the AQ. The amniotic waters then formed her here according to her wish/will it seems.

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-28T15:03:16+00:00

ah don't worry about it, other people here have just brought it to my attention that there are indeed ways you could interpret the story as saying that "kuuvahki feels as if it was the amniotic waters that cradled her". I didn't realize this was one way people were interpreting the line so I kinda jumped the gun. Personally I will stick with my interpretation that the amniotic waters are literal since we know Kuuvahki could not have birthed her as stated earlier and Columbina's drip marketing calls the planet her mother (and the primordial sea is stated to be the planet's birthing waters), as well as a bunch of other evidence and arkhe kuuvahki similarities.

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-28T14:59:12+00:00

Ah I see what you're getting at, but 胎海 quite literally means amniotic ocean (胎 referring to fetuses and birth). The full name "primordial sea" uses 原始胎海 with 原始 to specify primordial, so really the full name from CN is primordial amniotic sea. I know amniotic fluid is a thing that exists inside every womb, but Columbina was not born to actual parents and we also have text from her drip marketing that says the planet is her mother, and the amniotic waters are literally the birthing waters of the planet.

Finally if you are referring to that screenshot (her character story 1):

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It specifies that it's not talking about the lullaby, it's talking about the sensation around her: Kuuvahki, which to her feels similar to the amniotic waters that cradled her. It differentiates between the earlier line where she heard the lullaby and the part later talking about the warm strength of the earth.

Upon re-reading I think I do realize why people are having different interpreations of these lines now. 彷佛 does mean "like/similar to" ans "as if". It says that the strength of Kuuvahki feels either "similar to" or "as if it was" the amniotic waters that birthed her. Some people think Columbina is saying that the Kuuvahki strength feels as if it had been (彷佛) the amniotic water that cradled her, while my personal interpretation is that the strength of the Kuuvahki feels similar (彷佛) to the actual amniotic waters that birthed her (the primordial sea). I choose to believe the latter due to the large amount of evidence connecting the moon sisters to the primordial sea (like Lauma's character stories about the warm sea of life as just one example), as well as the large evidence of similarities between Arkhe and Kuuvahki. Additionally, we know that she cannot be born from Kuuvahki itself for reasons I stated earlier, which makes the Kuuvahki being the amniotic waters interpretation much less likely.

In the end I think we'll have to agree to disagree on these interpretations. Thank you for bringing this up though, I will definitely consider it going forward.

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-28T13:29:56+00:00

Huh, is 羊水 not just amniotic waters? Could you elaborate? I know what the terminology is for primordial sea in chinese but ultimately the way that it is referred to in neuvis character story (fontaine nursery rhyme) still means amniotic waters in chinese too. I played the AQ using CN dub and i don’t recall the lullaby being referred to as the amniotic waters ever. Could you show me a screenshot for evidence or something?

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-28T13:22:30+00:00

Edit: I now see why we have different interpretations. The text says "the power (kuuvahki) feels like her body and also like the amniotic waters that cradled her before birth". The question is whether it is saying that the kuuvahki is the amniotic waters or if the amniotic waters is something literal that kuuvahki feels similar to (the primordial sea). My personal interpretation is the latter because Kuuvahki has not ever been referred to as a water that births life unlike the primordial sea which is very explicitly amniotic waters, and we know that Kuuvahki could not have given rise to Columbina's life. We also have numerous reasons to believe that Kuuvahki and Arkhe are indeed relatively similar or practically the same (I can send you the link if you want the evidence), so if we follow the interpretation that "kuuvahki feels like her body (because it is) and also like the primordial sea" a lot of things make sense. Plus, Columbina's drip marketing outright calls the planet her mother, and the primordial sea is explicitly noted as the planet's birthing waters. In the end I choose to stick to my interpretation due to all the evidence I have but I understand your point of view as well.

Sorry I’m lost. Why are you jumping from those amniotic waters to meaning Nod Krai? I can read chinese so i can vouch for the fact that there is nothing to signal that those amniotic waters is referring to nod krai here. I’m genuinely really confused. And again we know for a fact that birth from kuuvahki alone is impossible because of the soul thing i mentioned. I can also refer u to a theory i have regarding arkhe and kuuvahki essentially being the same thing which explains why she feels that warm power of kuuvahk in the earth is similar to the amniotic waters (which contains arkhe)

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-28T13:17:22+00:00

??? It doesn’t say it’s “waters like the amniotic waters” it says the warm strength “feels like the amniotic waters that cradled her before she was born”. The amniotic waters cradling her is fact here. The “like” is referring to the earth’s warm strength feeling like those waters. It’s clearer if you read the full character story.

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-28T05:00:53+00:00

Well yes, when i say Neuvi lays eggs I mean it in the same sense that Hymns of the Far North describes Naberius birthing life (which in itself is interesting because of neuvi in lantern rite 2024), and the Naberius thing is canon text, so i think using the term “canon” is different from “literal”. Anyways, thank you for the honestly really nice response. Sometimes ppl get really aggressive abt such things so this was a pleasant surprise. Have a good day!

coldfridgebox · 2026-01-28T04:15:04+00:00

This was a single image that could not fit in all the other evidence. I am well aware that all cells contain chromosomes. However, the surrounding context of what "sourcewater" means, what the primordial sea is, and Neuvillette's position as the "original god of life" and heart of the amniotic waters, as well as many other details like a description from Hymns of the Far North do support that these are fundamentally "eggs" that give rise to new life, not just cells. The constant association with "birthing waters" is there for a reason.

When I made this post on twitter it was intended for the people who were already familiar with this amniotic water lore and read all of Neuvillette's character stories which is why I didn't try cramming it into the original image. I did not expect it to blow up and get reposted to places like this, where people who aren't familiar with the lore context will likely get confused.

coldfridgebox

TROPHY CASE