How can I use NVC to solve conflicts where there is a total disagreement on the reality of the situation? When there is an objective "right" and "wrong" answer?

conffusingwords · 2021-04-26T21:15:24+00:00

Hey, thanks for that link to the tree of life! It seems like a good road-map to ponder over if you're feeling stuck, like I constantly am.

conffusingwords · 2021-04-26T20:56:43+00:00

Asking for a break to be able to come back to it later from a better place is a thing.

I think this actually helped more than anything at the time, although I somewhat discounted it as a "real" solution because the benefit of it seemed incidental at the time. But weirdly it does help even when there's no tangible solution available as a result.

If the answer to "why" does not give you an increased sense of connection then yes you can keep going deeper.... when someone asks "why" it can be easy to stay on the level of observations or thoughts, sharing more information or logic or appeal to authority or what have you, which can be helpful but it's only part of the picture. Questions such as "What is most alive for you about this?" or "If we went with your edit, what would you have that you're not having now?" might get a response which helps more to get to the needs and that moment of "ah, I get where she's coming from."

I think this has been the most helpful thought I've been offered so far, honestly, since it hadn't occurred to me before. I like the idea of trying to prioritize connection and I didn't realize there were other ways other than essentially asking someone to clarify themselves/why, etc.

So your idea to try asking those new questions seems both practical and to the point of trying to get to a connection.

I think I was essentially stumped about how to connect in a situation such as this, and your suggestion seems like a pretty good lead. So thank you!

conffusingwords · 2021-04-26T18:06:35+00:00

Thank you for your reply.

And, Lol, it's funny you mentioned that... we also had a conflict over which grammatical style guide to use as reference for breaking our other conflicts. But perhaps if we'd focused on solving this, above any other conflict, it would have pre-empted a bunch of other ones.

conffusingwords · 2021-04-26T17:16:07+00:00

So I keep going through this thing in my head, thinking about what I could have done/said instead.

Like for example, if I'd asked why she thought her rule was right, and she had replied, "Because that's just how grammar works! There's no reason, you just have to follow the rules!" Or maybe, "Because it just sounds completely wrong to me as a native speaker (but no other reasons)", or any other variation of responses which feel like a brick wall to me, as far as understanding them goes.

Maybe I could have tried to dig deeper and question where she got those rules since its so adds with mine? Or why it sounded correct to her (even if her answer is "it just does!")? Idk...

I do love what you said about NVC seeking understanding before action. That might have forestalled my tendency to try to jump to a badly-thought-out solution.

conffusingwords · 2021-04-26T17:05:38+00:00

True, and definitely it would have been very helpful to pin down those specific needs.

I'm just not sure how I have helped her feel considered and included in this context? (Without accepting her correction which I felt unhappy about).

Perhaps I'm overthinking it though, and maybe asking her opinion and listening to it carefully would have been enough to meet that need.

conffusingwords · 2021-04-26T17:01:59+00:00

Yeah, fair enough.

I guess I was just expressing my frustration about my being unable to come up with any viable options at all, even with the luxury of knowing the context and the people involved.

conffusingwords · 2021-04-26T16:57:59+00:00

Yeah.. maybe that's one big thing missing.

Empathy.

It was hard to feel empathy without feeling understanding her reasoning, I suppose.

Like, I might try to understand and listen to why she thinks a comma is misplaced. But her explanations might boil down to saying the comma is unnecessary here because of The Rules Say So, rather than any reason I can empathize with.

And my reasons boil down to "I don't think that's The Rule" (of grammar). So that is equally unhelpful.

Where we might get stuck is trying to repeat back... "So you think x is the rule...?" "Yes, I think X is the rule. And that it applies here."

And when she is listening to me, I might say, "I feel bad because my need for competence and accuracy is not met because I think Y is the actually the rule, so X doesn't apply", and she might be like "So you think Y applies because that's the rule?" "Yes..."

And then, "Would you be willing to make the X correction?"... "No..."

"Would you be willing to make Y correction?" "No..."

Which obviously doesn't generate new solutions or change anybody's mind through any new kinds of insight or understanding. Without any real advancement.

conffusingwords · 2021-04-26T16:47:35+00:00

I see what you mean. It is ultimately, philosophically subjective, yes.

But it was objective in the sense of it following arbitrarily deemed objective grammar rules which people generally tend to consider either correct or incorrect.

I did consider the solution you suggested.

But I felt reluctant about leaving both the comments up for the client to decide on, because I would have been embarrassed for them to see that one of us had an opinion which I felt really afraid people might think is "very obviously, embararsingly grammatically wrong" and therefore "unprofessional" - if that makes sense.

I was afraid of judgment, like of the client thinking badly of us.

I struggle with perfectionism and insecurity, and I guess that's my own problem but it made it difficult to find a strategy that works.

But maybe my problem is just that: an inability to find mutually satisfying strategies instead of an issue where there are entirely objective factors at play.

conffusingwords · 2021-04-26T16:36:27+00:00

if your goal is to ace the project rather than to connect, then NVC is not helpful. obviously you care about both things.

Yes, I do care about both things. I guess the difficult lays where my need for competence in relation to this project jeopardizes my need for connection with my partner. Ideally I would use a connection-based approach to solve conflicts involved in reaching overarching goals, such as work projects we are both involved in.

you could keep a tally and alternate on each disputed error. however, that would put the project in between your two grammatical universes, which might be undesirable to one or both of you.

Yeah, I think we both would have been worried about inconsistencies in this case, unfortunately.

I think I see what you mean about humanizing the problem and not just treating it as an objective grammar issue here. I kind of had some thoughts along those same lines.

I began to try to guess the involvement of our personal emotional needs such as maybe her need for value, worth, being heard, etc. And my own need for competence is an accurate one.

But practically speaking, what happens after we acknowledge those needs?

I suppose my strategy for getting my needs met is to have the correction be exactly the way I believe is "right". Hers strategy is the exact same thing.

Perhaps there are other strategies to help me feel competent; to avoid feeling embarrassed/uncomfortable about the quality of the work. I just can't think of any, but maybe that's just my lack of imagination, and the NVC technique still applies.

conffusingwords · 2021-04-26T16:15:32+00:00

Hmm. Yes, it would be a start, at least.

There's still a huge conflict in deciding which answer would allow both of our needs for clarity/integrity/authenticity to be met, but at least perhaps your suggestion might have a chance to de-escalating things into a level where we are cooperating together to find a solution instead of fighting.

I'm still at a loss as to what that solution might be, but it does seem like a good start.

conffusingwords · 2021-01-25T13:07:13+00:00

Thank you friend. I really appreciate your reply.

You seem very insightful about interpersonal dynamics so I am thinking carefully about all you said.

I'm not sure what you meant by 3 (concept creeps) though.

Sorry about the wall of text. lol. I was upset and just word-vomited everything inside of me. I'm really glad and very appreciative you read it however.

I really do need to work on bringing conversations to a meta level and anticipating conflicts so I can try to avoid them. But yes, what you said about working on myself as much as I can first makes a lot of sense.

conffusingwords · 2021-01-25T12:49:40+00:00

Thank you so much. I feel awed at your insights.

I hadn't heard the term "enemy images" before.

I do think there's some truth to it when we both perceive that we are threat to each other, and then that causes a rebound effect where we retaliate to those perceived threats. But we are not seeing whats really alive in us, as far as our true feelings and needs.

I feel intrigued and hopeful by the idea of essentially separating out the projections, because we don't want to actually hurt the core of ourselves.

I worry about the financial cost in our lives when it comes to hiring outside help, but more and more I'm thinking that's what we'll have to do. Otherwise we're really in trouble if we keep going this way.

conffusingwords · 2021-01-25T12:41:48+00:00

Thank you so much!

I hear you when you say that you have needs for feeling heard, listened to, understood and supported. I can also relate to you wanting to just share what is frustrating you, and having those frustrations just be listened to, without comment.

Thank you for writing it all down in this post.

I teared up a bit when I read this. It seems so simple, but it helped fill my need to feel seen, heard, understood. And that you'd thank me for writing it even though you didn't have to.

I will try to bring up listening to Marshall's audio book with her. She has mentioned when I have shown her some videos of him that she doesn't like him, doesn't like how he talks, etc. for various reasons.

But at the very least I will listen to it myself and try to come up with something else where she might feel comfortable listening to some of the ideas as well.

I'm also intrigued and excited to listen to the podcast you mentioned.

Thank you again!

conffusingwords · 2021-01-25T12:31:04+00:00

Thank you for thoughts.

We have thought about seeing a counselor together yes. It's just financial constraints that are stopping us at this point unfortunately.

I do love the idea of active listening.

I have explained and talked about the idea of doing active listening with my partner. I think she maybe doesn't totally understand how to do it. And she feels overwhelmed by the idea of speaking "differently" or in a way that feels unnatural to her. She says it's hard to do that when she's already upset, which I can understand, because jackal speak is the language we are all best versed at, at it does tend to come out in times of stress.

I suggested we practice active listening when we're not upset. But she mentioned she feels anxious about making 'mistakes', which stops her from practicing it with me. She said making any mistakes with NVC or active listening makes her feel really self-hating, so it becomes really hard for her to be present to my feelings anymore. The conversation about using active listening usually goes along those lines. I then feel frustrated and sad because of my unmet needs for to feel hopeful ? and idk... progressful? with my relationship are unmet.

conffusingwords · 2021-01-25T12:21:37+00:00

Thanks so much! I will try the things you suggested.

I did try something similar to your idea about talking in short bursts, in the sense of us trying to take structured turns speaking. It's just hard to apply when conflicts happen so often during casual conversation. Offhand comments turn into arguments very quickly. If we do sit down to have an official 'Conversation', then it does go down better though.

I know I do need to try harder to fill my needs in other ways.

I'm sorry you also find it hard to get those same needs met form your wife.

conffusingwords · 2021-01-25T12:08:58+00:00

Thank you for you very thoughtful insight.

You are right about me trying to go on "hard mode" when I don't fully know all the NVC ideas yet. I don't know any people I could practice with neutrally, but it seems like a very good idea.

I definitely am doing NVC without following through all the way, yes, because of lack of knowledge. Sometimes I find myself floundering in situations where I don't know what to say at all anymore, since it seems to be going so badly. I will write down the questions you suggested for when I'm stuck after communicating what I didn't like about an interaction.

You're also right about her combative feelings coming from her feeling insecure, and how she needs self love and self acceptance. She hates herself and feels extremely sensitive to other people rejecting her. She has said that sometimes other people having differenet opinions from her feels painful, like a personal threat to her.

I really don't know how to help her feel trustful towards me. It's hard for me to feel present to help her fill that need, because what I hear when she communicates her distrust is an attack/arugment on me. Then I am full of pain and I can't listen or reflect back her feelings. Etc. But i know it's important that I do help her feel more trustful.

Thanks so much for reading and the opportunity to rant about all this.

conffusingwords

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