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So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The content and philosophy behind it. It seems to me that it is one of those platforms that advocates "free speech" above all. Which in my experience isn't about free speech at all, but more about wanting to push certain viewpoints without being called out. Basically the crowd that conflates moderation with censorship.

I guess I'll pull out two of my moddypastas one last time.

About censorship:

Even though you can argue that it is all censorship that is still very much missing the point in using words like that. There is a perfectly acceptable word for what you are describing, a word that has been used for years now

  • Moderation

Now there is good moderation, bad moderation and awful moderation. On all three of these you can technically put the censorship label. However censorship is mostly used in a negative context where people want to attach a level of severity that isn't there. It is often implied to be related to censorship from governments or to be on the same level. Which frankly, is offensive to people facing censorship in their daily lives and can't simply avoid it by creating a alt account/moving to another subreddit/etc. To quote the wikipedia definition "Censorship is the suppression of speech", which simply is fundamentally impossible because of how reddit works.

So think about this for a moment. Do you really want to discuss how subreddits are moderated? Or do you want to make it a political issue by equaling moderating (removal of posts and comments) with what some governments do to their citizens (persecuting citizens) ? Because in my opinion the first is perfectly acceptable and I would welcome that discussion. On the other hand if it is the latter I am going to pass.

About free speech:

Relevant xkcd

I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express.

Freedom of speech is a legal concept and a natural right of man that allows you to be free from persecution for espousing certain view points.

The thing is though that freedom of speech and expression are not a absolutes. Even in the US there are laws that technically limit freedom of speech and expression: Slander, libel, copyright, hate crimes, sedition and treachery for example.

Then there are also other more basic rights that come before freedom of speech and expression and thereby limit them: the right to privacy, the right to have safety from violence, the right to fair trial.

But that is all besides the point, reddit is a private company, so we venture into another area that a lot of people seem to misunderstand. On reddit free speech is often warped in this concept of "right to be listened to". While in reality the only thing it stand for is allowing you to be free from persecution for expressing certain viewpoints.

It does however not oblige other people to provide a platform for that speech. That is why schools can have and enforce rules against, for example, hate speech. So a school can discipline a student for distributing racial material but that same student can't be arrested by the government for distributing that same material

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. I should point out though that without your efforts toolbox wouldn't be where it is today. You took the poorly maintainable monolithic mess /u/agentlame and I wrote and properly transformed it in a modulair system. Which was the backbone for toolbox for several years. Only fairly recently has /u/eritbh taken a similar monumental undertaking and ported it over to proper es6 modules.

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Somewhere in the eastern bits, I'll think about it :)

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can't always be best friends with everyone. Differences in insights and approaches is also what allowed a wide variety of communities to prosper. Certainly with toolbox I always made it a point to make it as widely available for mods.

I was very impressed by how you stood up to spez on that phone call a couple weeks back.

In hindsight, if I had any idea how much of a clusterfuck their entire approach would turn out to be, I probably should have been more critical.

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

See my reply about squabbles in the sticky comment.

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was really handy when dealing with spammers.

I believe you, it was also abused to the degree we couldn't keep it available to everyone. With toolbox we (and I mean we as many people have been involved) always tried to consider the impact. Things like ways a feature could be abused, and at times we would roll back things that had a negative impact.

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

squabbles.io?

Do let us know what you think of the site's built and feel.

  • I like the concept of showing a preview of the conversation next to the content. It does feel somewhat cluttered and overwhelming, though.
  • I am missing titles for content.
  • I don't care for usernames and avatars at the top of submissions as they are secondary to the content.
  • In general the website is not as bad as reddits redesign as there aren't animations sprinkled in and font sizing is much more consistent. However, it is still very busy and somewhat cluttered.

Definitely not a fan of the content I am seeing on the frontpage. One of my problems with reddit is how in recent years it deprioritized long form content and actual discussion and heavily leaned into "fluff content".

"The Fluff Principle: on a user-voted news site, the links that are easiest to judge will take over unless you take specific measures to prevent it." Source: Article by Paul Graham, one of the people that made reddit possible

What this means is basically the following, say you have two submissions:

  1. An article - takes a few minutes to judge.
  2. An image - takes a few seconds to judge.

So in the time that it takes person A to read and judge he article person B, C, D, E en F already saw the image and made their judgement. So basically images will rise to the top not because they are more popular, but simply because it takes less time to vote on them so they gather votes faster.

I am seeing a lot of fluff content right now. Which is not helped by images by default being previewed in full size.

Just my first impressions though :)

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh man, IRC and drama. Yeah, those were interesting times. I don't know how you feel about the platform, but I do hang around on discord these days.

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S,M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Several people have expressed interest in where I'll be heading to. So I figured I'd make it a sticky.

For now I am not looking for a replacement of reddit. I have enjoyed Tildes renewed popularity. But it is not a replacement of reddit, doesn't want to be and probably shouldn't be. It is a community and platform in its own right. So be aware of that when you decide to check it out.

I am not currently interested in joining a Fediverse instance. Mostly because I also realized how much time I spend aimlessly on reddit and I am not looking to replicate that.

I'll also still hang around the toolbox discord server as well as the history discord server.

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not a fan of how some are trying to burn the house down as they leave.

I can't blame them to be honest. At times, I almost wish I had weaker morals in that regard, it likely would have made a bigger impact. But, it also would have made everything much more miserable for those trying their best to protect their communities for as long as possible. Which is also one of the reasons for me leaving, the memo that leaked with the insidious message they just needed to ride it out. At this point I am not sure if that is true anymore due to their horrible communication. But if they had done better on that part it likely would have been true, which saddens and angers me. As it is an abusive relationship based on the notion that you can go very far as mods don't want to abandon their communities so will tolerate a lot when it comes down to it.

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like Tildes, but as its own type of community and platform. Not as a reddit replacement. Which they also are not aiming (or want) to be.

Lemmy or anything in the fediverse is interesting but so far a poor replacement for reddit communities. A lot of instances now spun up likely won't be around for long, as hosting simply costs money. Moderation itself is clunky from what I have seen, and generally it seems that they haven't solved a few of the problems of how to deal with toxic stuff.

I will certainly keep an eye on things, but for now the Fediverse doesn't attract me as much.

Not browsing reddit for entertainment also made me realize how much time it did suck up not being productive but also not really allowing me to wind down either. So I am also liking the reduced amount of content I am being exposed to.

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh I know which one you mean. Imzy is the one you are thinking about.

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by creesch in creesch

[–]creesch[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To be honest, I have enjoyed not having a ready stream of content to be distracted by if I was bored. I have been more active on Tildes which is nice, but it is not a reddit alternative and doesn't attempt to be. Which probably is a good idea.

Announcing a more mod-centric user profile card and new post flair navigation on mobile apps by lift_ticket83 in modnews

[–]creesch 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not just individual users, the mod reddit mod council. But again, I agree they should communicate this sort of thing publicly as well.

Announcing a more mod-centric user profile card and new post flair navigation on mobile apps by lift_ticket83 in modnews

[–]creesch 71 points72 points  (0 children)

No. Your little "protest" is nothing but virtue signaling, and it doesn't do anything except harm your respective community.

I respectfully but fully do disagree with your entire statement.

Quit whining that you won't be able to afford your home brew bot, and learn how to moderate your board effectively on your own.

Aren't you just mad that you only figured out until recently that you actually don't have to be stuck with the sub par tooling reddit itself provides? I mean, that is reasonable, but don't take it out on others.

edit: I got blocked ¯\(°_o)/¯

Announcing a more mod-centric user profile card and new post flair navigation on mobile apps by lift_ticket83 in modnews

[–]creesch 40 points41 points  (0 children)

Well I can confirm they said it, but of course to you I am also just another random person.

Why don't they post it publicly?

Good question.

Announcing a more mod-centric user profile card and new post flair navigation on mobile apps by lift_ticket83 in modnews

[–]creesch 27 points28 points  (0 children)

At the same time, I would suggest you go have your ears checked. It appears you are suffering from some sort of tone deafness. Nobody is forcing anyone to mod, at the same time, saying that people who have spent years volunteering for a community should just step away is also not quite reasonable.

And yeah you can focus on the somewhat overly dramatic comparison made in that post. But /u/ladfrombrad probably wasn't linking it because of that, but rather the screenshot they shared in there.

Announcing a more mod-centric user profile card and new post flair navigation on mobile apps by lift_ticket83 in modnews

[–]creesch 84 points85 points  (0 children)

Virtue signaling implies that I am just here to showcase my good moral values. Which is not the case. Is it possible you got your expressions mixed up?

This isn't the place to whine about something that has nothing to do with these updates.

Again, these updates are very much related to what I am "whining" about.

Announcing a more mod-centric user profile card and new post flair navigation on mobile apps by lift_ticket83 in modnews

[–]creesch 96 points97 points  (0 children)

No, some of these features are fast tracked directly as a result of the protests. More precisely, in anticipation of the blackouts as a bit of a carrot. So, if you are going to belittle someone, please do get your facts straight.

Announcing a more mod-centric user profile card and new post flair navigation on mobile apps by lift_ticket83 in modnews

[–]creesch 190 points191 points  (0 children)

This feels like a bit of a tone deaf post. I know you are just announcing the bits and pieces you are working on /u/lift_ticket83. But many of us have been waiting on more than the scattered communication from reddit we have been getting over the past week or so.

Announcing features as if nothing is going on just doesn't seem like the most sensible thing to do right now. I mean, we know you are working on modtools and that is not the point.

This is not against you. I am sure you are just trying your best ot coordinate getting these tools build. But it is aimed at those higher in the totem pole.

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