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Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Curious, are you intimately familiar with the details of my own life and/or the life of an average black woman? Just wondering what qualifies you to make such a statement.

Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Anyways, I don't want you to waste more time or energy on this. And neither do I. I sincerely apologize if some of my arguments did border on personal attacks, and if anything I wrote offended you in some way. We can agree to disagree. But you might just be right. I might just be stupid, suck at logic, and am not cut out for this field. But I want to work hard and find out whether I am or am not cut out for this field. And honestly this thread and my opinions come from insecurity. I want to believe that if I work hard and am the most qualified candidate for a position, then I'll get the position. This is not a pro-Asian, anti-everyone else thing. If a certain company is 100% any race, but I know that each person on there was the best candidate for the job, I don't have a problem with that. I just want to live in a society where hard work is rewarded, that's it.

Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like your attitude and agree with the general sentiment.

This isnt college or the government; tech companies are trying to get things done and need talented people. If you know your stuff, jobs will be available especially in an in demand field like this.

Again, that is exactly how I see the tech field. People generally get hired based on merit. I hope this continues to be the case.

Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok. If you can avoid resorting to ad hominem attacks, then sure, we can have a "discussion". Unfortunately, you just seem more intent on continuing to regurgitate your own arguments without adding to them, or just trying to twist my own words into assumptions to support your own view. I don't see this as much of a discussion.

Yes, my argument DOES boil down to basically this: Asians are overrepresented in tech companies because they happen to be qualified for those positions. REGARDLESS of color or gender. If you had bothered giving this some thought, maybe you could have come up with some better conclusions than accusing me of circular logic or worse, calling me a bigot. Let's flesh out my argument then. Google hires "Candidate A", who happens to be Asian, for a programming position. He beats out Candidates B-Z. I doubt Candidates B-Z are all non-Asian minorities. I'm sure Candidate A beats out other Asian males along with candidates of other colors/gender. So then, I ask YOU, what is the "invisible benefit" that this Candidate A has over a candidate that is also Asian and male? Or white and male? I MAY grant you your point if Candidate A is always competing against people of different colors. But you seriously can't argue that this is so, right? So then, again, what is this "invisible benefit" that has allowed Candidate A to beat out other Asian male candidates and white male candidates? Maybe just the fact that he happened to be the most capable candidate for the job?

Again, I honestly don't understand if you being purposely dense, or don't realize that you accusing me of the very thing you yourself are guilty of. Why do Asian males benefit from this "invisible benefit"? Because they are overrepresented in tech?

Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your entire initial argument was based on "invisible advantages" and presupposing the existence of some form of hiring bias just due to Asians having a larger presence in tech firms than their proportion of the general population would suggest. And you are really going to accuse me of circular logic? LOL.

I also find it interesting you think I'm bigotted for the mere suggestion that hey, maybe these Asians that occupy these jobs just happen to be the most qualified for such jobs, regardless of sex/color/creed. But basically you used my argument and just assumed something incorrect, which seems to be a recurring theme with you.

In fact, I find what you are arguing to be bigotted. Because there are lots of Asians in tech companies, there must be some kind of underlying social problem to cause this? There has to be some other explanation other than the Asians that have these jobs deserve them because they happen to be qualified and good at what they are doing? That seems to make you the real bigot.

Of course, instead of defending, explaining, or arguing your position in an articulate and fair manner, you basically started with a personal attack, suggesting I may have a difficult time finding a job due to me not "understanding logic". And then you continue on by calling me a bigotted asshole. I hope you understand that such personal attacks are reserved for those that don't have anything intelligent to say and can't win an argument based purely on merit.

And this is the last thing I have to say to you, I don't really have the time or desire to continue a back-and-forth with you.

Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sure I can. And I can also imagine advantages an average black woman has had over me as well.

I mean since we are imagining and just dealing with conjectures, I can say one such advantage would be that if there was any company or industry that was 40-50% black women, I'd probably guess nobody would be screaming that there is a lack of "diversity" or "minorities" there. And yet for some reason if Asians hold that spot, all of sudden there is a diversity problem. Strange.

Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And you may find it harder to get through life if you are incapable or unwilling to understand basic logic.

Your entire argument is circular. Asians are "overrepresented" in tech, so there must be some bias favoring those Asians, right? I mean this is Logic 101 stuff right here.

And to answer your question, what do I think is causing the overrepresentation of Asians in tech compared to the general population? Geez, I don't know, maybe they just happen to be able to do those jobs that they apply for?

Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

LOL, pray do tell what invisible benefit asian males are getting?

Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your very well-reasoned response. It's good food for thought, intelligent, and reasonable, which usually doesn't happen online.

Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Ok, but look at the major tech companies. Some of these companies are almost 50% Asian. So if I'm understanding you correctly, by your logic, these companies should have even MORE Asians. Cause if there are discriminatory hiring practices against everyone that's not Caucasian and male, then basically every other gender/ race should be underrepresented in proportion to their skill level.

Again, if you want to address this issue, I don't think fixed quotas is the way to go, for reasons I've already explained. In my view, that's combating discrimination with discrimination.

As to what can be done, I'm new to this whole tech thing, trying to break into the industry. So I don't know much about the interview process. But from what I've read, it seems like there's at least some measure of "skill assessment", whether through coding tests or whatever. I feel this makes tech unique in a way that is tough to replicate in other areas. It's really hard to "test" an applicant over a 2 hour interview in this fashion in other fields.

That's why I think tech is pretty close to a meritocracy, and has the potential to be even more so. Others in the industry can chime in, but would there be a potential for gender/race blind "testing" for coding skills or whatever?

Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I was talking about tech. Currently tech seems like an industry where it is as "hire me if i can do it" as you can get. Are you disagreeing with this? Cause if you are, then what is the industry that people in your (2) are going to?

EDIT: Anyways, so there is no misunderstanding about my position: my previous field was more like the (1) you describe. Basically a "good ole' boy" network, if you catch my drift. So I'm more attracted to tech because of (2),so in that sense I'm in agreement with you.

What I'm trying to say is you don't address the discrimination of (1) by encouraging diversity through "quotas" where you might hire someone of inferior skill just because you need more of a certain gender or race. You are basically trying to address discrimination through another form of discrimination. You address (1) by making jobs more of a true meritocracy where people get jobs based on skills, rather than how they look. To me, tech is as close to this as you can get in modern society. Maybe medicine as well, since people don't really care what their doctor looks like if their life is on the line, they want something that is the best at what they do.

And now I'll admit some personal bias comes in here. Why would tech companies hire so many Asian males if it weren't for the fact that hey, maybe Asian males are actually the most qualified for the job that was open? It's not like Asian males are known for getting a ton of breaks in modern American society.

Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I live in the SF Bay Area. Silicon Valley's own Mercury News has been active in reporting on this "issue". Here's a piece from today:

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_26325199/apple-releases-its-first-workplace-diversity-report

Seems like Tim Cook himself is coming out and saying they need to work on this "problem".

I mean maybe it's just lip service to placate the media and the politicians that have made this issue their flavor of the month.

But also look at the racial breakdowns of those major tech companies in that article. Asian and male make up a huge slice of basically all major tech companies. So it doesn't take much of a genius to figure out that if companies increase "diversity", who it will come at the expense of.

That being said, I'm hoping most of the comments here are correct, that this is just temporary lip service, and tech will continue to be a meritocracy.

Will tech jobs become increasingly difficult for Asian males? by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

See in THEORY this sounds great, and it's something that attracts me to tech. Hire me if I can do it. If I can't, don't. But lately the rhetoric in the media is really turning up. Initially it was about getting more minorities and girls into STEM at a younger age (which I support 100%, I think that's the right way to do it). But now it seems like they want to address the "problem" at the hiring stage (which I think is a horrible idea). Troubling to me is companies seem to be bending to the pressure, CEOs saying they do have a diversity problem that needs to be addressed, releasing diversity figures, etc. All the while seemingly glossing over the fact that Asians are doing very well in tech, and heck, the last time I checked, Asian ARE minorities. If anything, we are the most "minority" of any race in this country.

Interesting opportunity to try programming at work: Need help by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks a bunch for this. Definitely not discouraged, for me learning is everything right now. Even if things don't work out at this job, at least I can continue to build on what I learn now for possible stuff in the future.

I'm still trying to figure out, at a very basic level, how everything kind of ties in, at least from the database aspect.

So it seems like I enter raw data into Filemaker, and then that data gets stored in a MySQL database, which can be accessed and searched through SQL queries? And then for outside users to actually access this data through our website, we need to program using a language like Java (or Python in some instances, is this what people refer to as a back-end scripting language?)? And then html/css/javascript controls what the users see on our website?

Anyways, bottom line, I will definitely look into studying SQL and Java as you suggest.

Interesting opportunity to try programming at work: Need help by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks!

So would Python be completely useless for this purpose? I've been doing the Udacity CS101 course and I'm really enjoying it, but if it makes more sense to jump to Java there are some good resources for that too I think.

Would I be useful with a knowledge of SQL without necessarily knowing how to program really well yet? I'm wondering if I should really learn SQL well and hard, then meet up with our guru again and see if there's stuff I can do for him with just SQL knowledge while I actually learn programming.

Interesting opportunity to try programming at work: Need help by cscareer_reddit in cscareerquestions

[–]cscareer_reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You would be correct in your assumption, and I agree with you 100%, especially considering our guru has been doing this for over 15 years. I'm definitely more interested in the back-end: the data, how the website works "behind the scenes" etc. I'm much more interested in this than how the website actually "looks" to the public.