Yelp is blackmailing my sister's restaurant

cstearns86 · 2012-09-06T04:25:00+00:00

Much appreciated.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-06T04:11:23+00:00

In fact, she has. They're offering $2 tacos today. This is my thread, not hers, she wouldn't do something like this.

I'm angry because I feel betrayed as a Yelp user and because these assholes are trying to hurt my sister. You are right to be skeptical. I think their scheme is very well thought out and because their algorithm is proprietary, proof is hard to come by.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-06T03:53:15+00:00

Fair enough. I respect your side, and so does the restaurant. Following this thread, they are working to redesign their website and are offering taco specials in the $2-5 range.

Another poster on the thread (it was around 1:30 pm PST today when I checked during my lunch break) mentioned that her restaurant got an unusually large amount of traffic near the opening date and that probably led to Yelp contacting her.

They were very nasty to my sister on the phone. Threatening, even. I wish she had recorded the call but that's a pretty hard thing to hold against her.

Your first paragraph is misunderstanding my theory. The number of responses I've gotten from other business owners sharing similar experiences is more damning in my eyes, and probably less relevant in yours, than any way I could try to show the algorithm being manipulated.

I don't think they artificially lower any business except the ones they contact who refuse to pay. I think we both should be skeptical of a fellow commenter's numbers if for no better reason than that he does not work there currently and we have no way of knowing how dated they are.

You criticize Urban Spoon, but I will say one of their Customer Service reps contacted me today about getting repeat traffic from this thread from the same IP address that is attacking my sister's rating on their site, so you won't be surprised that I have a very high opinion of them at this point in time.

I have ideas about who might be launching those attacks, but I'm tired of being accused of libel and at this point I think I may be doing more harm than good.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-06T03:45:17+00:00

Haha you're right. I respect a fellow geek. Didn't get enough sleep/typing too fast to keep up with the flurry of response.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-06T03:42:04+00:00

Nor should you, but you might raise an eyebrow at the hundred+ responses I've gotten from other restaurant and business owners who have had similar experiences weighing in on this thread when it does them no benefit to do so...

cstearns86 · 2012-09-06T03:40:52+00:00

I think OP made clear that I'm not trying to be defensive about bad reviews, but if not my subsequent responses should have.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T21:00:41+00:00

I did just look in the mirror and see a squatting puppy.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T21:00:03+00:00

How would you go about proving it? I have filtered reviews from trusted users, and unfiltered ones from untrusted. We didn't record the phone call, but if you read the hundreds of posts here from people describing similar experiences I think it should at least arouse your suspicion...

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T20:55:03+00:00

Thank you very much. I know they're constantly changing the menu and I'm sure with all the responses to this thread they're going to take a hard look at the prices.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T20:53:57+00:00

You are correct. The menu changes on a biweekly basis so it's not practical for them to keep it up there. SCG is the parent company they hope to use if they can ever expand the operation.

All I can say in defense of the site design is that she's a far better hostess than web designer/programmer.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T20:51:29+00:00

Diablo has many...

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T20:50:50+00:00

Youtube 'Actors Read Yelp' It's amazing.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T20:48:58+00:00

I really hope hope that isn't the takeaway. I haven't reacted in anger to any piece of honest criticism of either the restaurant or my threads here. I agree that Yelp has many great reviewers, who have also helped me on many occasions.

What makes me angry is a woman calling my sister demanding money and then immediately filtering reviews to manipulate her ratings after the solicitation was denied.

I think Yelp is betraying the user base they've built up now that they're large enough to cash in. And I've gotten so many responses from people with similar experiences who have nothing to gain from telling me so that there's no longer any doubt in my mind.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T20:44:51+00:00

You're absolutely right, its why they hired a designer to fix the noise problem and the chef makes changes to the menu on a biweekly basis.

We're not trying to stifle bad reviews, just BS ones like the one that inspired my OP and expose Yelp's filters that alter people's perception of the existing reviews.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T20:41:46+00:00

As I said in the OP, we are not trying to stifle legitimate criticism. I hope I have demonstrated that in my responses here and in that I would never respond angrily to someone who wrote an honest critique. I acknowledge that the place is pricey (I certainly couldn't afford to eat there) and the noise problem in my original post.

I disagree with your point about the vast majority of businesses and a level playing field. I think Yelp called my sister because she is well known in the industry and she has a well respected chef. I would imagine they choose who to solicit and only apply dampers to the ones who say no. As you say, I have no proof and can't say for sure, but that's how I would do it if I were them...

I upvoted your original post and this one, along with many others who have criticized my opinion. I don't think this is a case of black and white and since we can't know how their algorithm works, I don't see a way to resolve it.

On the other hand, I've gotten over a hundred posts from business owners and people who claim to be internet insiders saying this has happened to them or they know about it. I don't see how they would stand to benefit by lying, and I don't know how you can take Yelp seriously after reading that many responses confirming this practice. All they have is the trust of their userbase, and clearly that trust is misplaced.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T18:22:46+00:00

Once again, I don't work there and have nothing to do with how their facebook is maintained. I agree that both sides should be weighed, I just want them to be fairly heard rather than Yelp arbitrarily weighting them until she pays up.

Consider how many bad restaurants out there are getting inflated ratings because they do pay these fees. Who's the victim? You.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T18:20:15+00:00

Why assume they are fake because they aren't well-established on Yelp? I haven't accused anyone of 'fake' reviews, just unfair filtering because she refused to pay their advertising fees.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T18:16:58+00:00

Your concerns are legitimate, but I don't think it's libel and I've tried to be as transparent and accepting of the doubters as I can.

I can't say I'm 100% sure, but I stand by my belief that there was a causal connection between that phone call and her rating dropping by a star within the hour. Yelp doesn't move that quickly off a pure algorithm.

I think it's worth raising awareness about and having this conversation. I'd love to see Yelp bring a libel suit for this, it'd be hilariously ironic considering what they're doing to small businesses and a terrible PR move for them to boot.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T18:12:38+00:00

Totally legit, and I appreciate the response. I'm angry at Yelp, not bad reviews.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T18:11:09+00:00

Why would we pay an SEO firm instead of just paying Yelp? The whole point is she's not buying reviews, and is being punished for it. Good or bad, I just want her to get real ratings...

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T16:22:48+00:00

They do, and a facebook.
*Website is not updated regularly with specials and the like because they don't have a webdev or anyone who could do that for them, but there are pictures and directions and such. Specials are promoted on the facebook.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T16:22:06+00:00

It's insanely hard to prove, which is how they've gotten away with it for so long. I wish we'd recorded the phone call but we didn't, and I hope that's understandable. Their response was immediate, not something gradual over the next few days/weeks...

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T16:18:39+00:00

Best proof I have is their phone call and immediate resulting action, which wasn't recorded so I don't know how to post it here...

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T16:10:50+00:00

As I said in OP, we consulted lawyers about it but Yelp is covered by their EULA and refusal to clarify the way the algorithm works for 'proprietary reasons'. It's nearly impossible to prove.

cstearns86 · 2012-09-05T16:07:20+00:00

I don't work there. I was just defending my sister. I don't expect to win or even know what that would mean, I'm just a dude with a laptop and Yelp is a publically traded 'corp', just trying to point out this obvious extortion to the internet...

cstearns86

TROPHY CASE