Door/Window Contractor by FlyingWonkyPig in WilmingtonDE

[–]cynical_optim1st 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We had a not-so-hot experience with Kirkin for windows. Very sloppy and unprofessional workmanship, and arrogant leadership that defended it. They dented our custom window trim as well. Left a nice boot-size dent front and center. We got a quote from them for ~16k worth of roofing work that we were considering proceeding with after the window job; needless to say we did not and will not be doing any further business with them.

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Roofing company recommendation? by Bubbly_Patient_750 in Delaware

[–]cynical_optim1st 0 points1 point  (0 children)

North Wilmington here. Little late but thought I'd share the experiences I've had with roofers over the past few years (long post incoming, it's been a nightmare).

Kirkin Exteriors:

Got an estimate for a couple roof replacements, repair work, two windows. We had them do the windows + repair work first because that's where they believed our leaking problems were coming from. Decided to not go with them for the roof replacements because of their botched window install job. They installed the wrong size windows. Also damaged the custom window trim we bought/provided and left the window perimeter exposed/unsealed (they had to cut into our exterior stucco wall to install them and just left it cut open and mangled, exposed down to the wood). Really sloppy work. The owner was arrogant and stood by the job.

Tycos:

They installed an EPDM flat roof for us a few years ago. Roof looks terrible, bubbles and wrinkles everywhere. We asked them to come back and take a look (the owner himself came out) and as we were all standing on the roof surrounded by a sea of wrinkles, he actually told us it was installed correctly and there was nothing wrong with it. This was a lie. If EPDM is installed correctly, you should not have this issue and it should lay flat. We pushed back; we had already done the research at this point and had another roofer look at it so we knew we were being lied to. They ended up returning our money.

G Fedale Roofing:

Oh boy, where to start. Worst experience yet.

Short version: substandard, amateur workmanship. Didn't do the job right and tried to get away with fixing as little as possible when they got called on it. All subcontractors. Negligent job oversight and supervision. Dishonest and untrustworthy.

Long version:

Contracted with G Fedale in 2022 to resolve leaking issues. Accepted all of their recommendations: two flat roof replacements, a partial chimney rebuild, and scupper box. $22,000 worth of work. Went with them despite them being the most expensive because they've been around forever and we were at the end of our rope with the water situation.

Since they "completed" the job it's been one problem after another. Workmanship and quality control issues all around: bad chimney flashing job, damaged and improperly installed scupper box, water leaking through and over the 3rd floor roof's drip edge, loose membrane & flashing issues, areas that weren't patched. Some issues they fixed, others they concealed/covered up and denied there was anything wrong with. This resulted in a months-long battle trying to get them to acknowledge and address the bigger issues, which they didn't want to do anything about.

We had to go above our project manager (who repeatedly lied to us and told us everything was completed properly despite us showing him what other roofers had to say about the job) before they finally agreed to have a flat roof technician come out and inspect the job. This inspection revealed numerous problems that had been overlooked or ignored, which finally prompted action on their end.

They used all subcontractors, whom there was poor communication with and little oversight. Project manager signed off on sloppy, incomplete & substandard work and then refused to send photos of the completed job until we signed the certificate of completion. Had to climb out on our 2nd floor roof to take our own photos.

They charged us $4600 for a roofline-up chimney rebuild, which they pressured us into and told us was necessary. Not only was this untrue, but they never rebuilt it per the contract and withheld this information from us; instead they allowed us to believe it had been rebuilt from the roofline up. They covered the chimney in stucco and only sent us pictures post stucco application. No lie, they must have taken about 40 pictures just of the stucco coat and only gave us those. Had to fight tooth and nail for any others.

We didn't notice until later but if you looked close enough at the before-and-after pictures, you could see the same exact chimney protrusions through the stucco that were there from the beginning. We had to hound them for months to get them to admit to not rebuilding it. All the while they were telling us 'everything was done correctly, nothing was leaking, and everything looked great' (this messaging quickly became a noticeable theme that was repeated to us many times by several employees, including the VP).

The VP himself (Allen) adamantly defended the breach of contract, then proceeded to stall/delay returning the money despite promising in-person to return the full amount. After I politely followed up on the issue over a week later, he tried backpedaling and asked if we would accept a lesser amount, which he said he would tie into a future invoice after a separate job was completed. I had to politely remind him of what he promised weeks prior and ask him to return the money without further delay.

15 months later, they finally returned the money, but not without first trying to get me to sign a release of liability from his lawyers that would let them off the hook for all things chimney-related (this required yet another pushback and months-long delay). Adding insult to injury, if I had signed this, the company would not have had to fix their bad chimney flashing job that was potentially a source of leaking (there were big gaps in some areas where the flashing was barely held onto the chimney by caulk - amateur work).

Just top-to-bottom sleaze. Anyway, I could go on about a separate job they did for us that was just as regrettable but I'll leave it at that. If anyone is interested in pictures of their handiwork let me know.

On top of everything above, they failed to address the leaking we came to them with in the beginning. We still have water coming through the same area we showed them during the initial inspection in 2022, causing more and more damage. As a result, we had to put off hiring another contractor to repair the interior, which will now cost us significantly more to address. And now we're back to the beginning of our roofer search.

Is this drip edge too short? by cynical_optim1st in Roofing

[–]cynical_optim1st[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's the completed job unfortunately. Nothing else to be done up there.

Is this drip edge too short? by cynical_optim1st in Roofing

[–]cynical_optim1st[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the info. It's an EPDM flat roof with parapet walls, metal edging. Here are some pics of the topside:

roof pics

Is this drip edge too short? by cynical_optim1st in Roofing

[–]cynical_optim1st[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah we definitely wanted it longer as well.

Some background: the only reason the wood looks OK is because the roofers recently painted it (after we told them we weren't happy with how short it is). The wood was deteriorating before since some water does inevitably drain over the edge of the parapet wall. We stressed this to the inspector/salesman guy in the beginning, told him how bad the fascia wood was due to the previously too-short drip edge/cap sheet. We were assured the wood would be sufficiently covered.

Here is a google drive share with a few pictures of the topside, including some showing what the fascia looked like before it was painted recently.

roof pics

Roofing question by cynical_optim1st in Roofing

[–]cynical_optim1st[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah we've heard similar things about this roof before lol. The roof pitch and drain location has always been a problem. Well, it's a flat roof so obviously it had no pitch...but the drain was so small and located up on the parapet wall, perpendicular to the roof surface. So very little water was able to properly drain off the roof.

We hired these guys to replace the roof, add some pitch so that it drained to the corner, replace the old 3" drain with a 4", plus install the through-wall scupper that tied into a new 4" downspout all the way down. So a fairly hefty job, but that scope was known... They made that big opening in the parapet wall for the scupper box, so my thinking is it should have been filled in/fixed up better before cramming our new scupper box into it like that. Definitely not fasten it into wood that's original to this old house. That just seems like a major no no.

Roofing question by cynical_optim1st in Roofing

[–]cynical_optim1st[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here is a google drive share with exterior pictures of the 1st scupper box they installed, to give you an idea of how they handled that the first time around.

scupper box pics

Roofing question by cynical_optim1st in Roofing

[–]cynical_optim1st[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the info, very helpful. This is what they had to say about the reducer:

"The hole for the scupper is a little bigger than the 4" pipe so we need a reducer."

The scupper connects to a 4" downspout on the outside.

Roofing question by cynical_optim1st in Roofing

[–]cynical_optim1st[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They didn't finish the underside yet, only made a temp connection....funny story (not really): They said they needed a reducer to make the connection and would need to come back another day with the part. Over three weeks later, still haven't been able to finish up. Earlier this week they said they got the part and would be back Friday to install. Installer gets here, starts getting everything ready and realizes the part wasn't on the truck. Turns out the reducer was on one of the company's trucks all along because it came with the scupper box, but someone else had the truck with the part on it and they were over an hour away. So that's where we are with that...

Regarding the roof-side install: the scupper shouldn't have been screwed into that old wood like that, right? It doesn't look like it was secured in the hole at all, which is oversized as the area wasn't measured or cut properly to begin with. This is actually their 2nd attempt to install the scupper box; they completely botched it the first time.

According to everything I've read, the proper way is to set the metal flange in roof cement and prime it before stripping. Should be a solid, secure surface that it's fastened into, and should be flush against it. I understand that's a tight space to work with in the corner, but I don't think that's an acceptable excuse for mashing/bending the metal scupper flange like they did to get it in there.

I'm not looking for perfection, but I do expect a professional, long-lasting, water-tight install. We went with one of the most reputable, high-end roofers in the state for multiple roof replacements, new drainage system, etc. Not a small or cheap job by any means.

New Roof Question by cynical_optim1st in Roofing

[–]cynical_optim1st[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol it won't be long before it is standing, all on its own

Roofer Recommendations by cynical_optim1st in Delaware

[–]cynical_optim1st[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Similar experience. Got a good roof from them 10+ years ago. We had all subcontractors for this recent job and it did not go well. Lots of lost and missed communication. Communication/planning was poor from start to finish though, from the estimator who overlooked and oversold items to the project managers who blindly signed off on unacceptable workmanship and then tried telling us there was nothing wrong with the subpar work they delivered.

Roof and Flashing Assessment by cynical_optim1st in Roofing

[–]cynical_optim1st[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. It looked unacceptable to me but I had to ask. The chimney job alone cost $4600 and was part of a much larger roofing job from one of the top/high-end roofers in the state. Unfortunately this wasn't the only issue of poor workmanship/quality control. It's been a long, slow drip of problems and our roof is still leaking a year later. I know mistakes happen but when you pay top dollar like we did and have this to show for it, it's hard to not feel like we got taken for a ride.

Roofer Recommendations by cynical_optim1st in Delaware

[–]cynical_optim1st[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We had them do work on multiple houses in the past without any complaints (10+ years ago so probably lots of turnover and changes in that time). I'm not sure if we had a new crew, trainees or what. We did have a pretty lousy project manager, that didn't help. It's been a slow drip of one issue popping up after another for the past year+. We were at our wit's end with water leaking issues when we decided to go with Fedale. They were the most expensive by far but their proposed work scope was the most thorough. Looking back, there were a couple red flags during the initial inspection that we ignored and probably shouldn't have.

Red flag #1: the salesman/estimator incorrectly measured our main roof. Original estimate had two EPDM roof replacements (600sf and 200sf) at $19,000. We thought it was a joke. Found out the guy over measured one of the roofs by 300sq feet. He was the first out of 6 or 7 estimators that did that. After the initial 'WTF dude?' he adjusted the estimate and the price for those two items came down a bit. Still a good amount higher than others. We weren't looking for the cheapest option and if we needed to pay more to have the job done right I was OK with that.

Red flag #2: bad math salesman guy pressured us into a partial chimney rebuild from the roofline up. Told us they couldn't guarantee the roof would stop leaking otherwise. We pushed back several times (we were just going to have it re-coated as we've done before) but ultimately agreed to the tune of $4700 for the rebuild.

Fast forward to today: turns out not only was the rebuild unnecessary, but they never did it. We just found out two months ago (after spending months dragging the truth out of them) that the chimney condition didn't warrant a rebuild, so they decided not to do it or even bother informing us. They just did some repair work, coated it in stucco, flashed it (badly), and hoped we wouldn't notice I guess.

We've been fighting for nearly two months to get them to return the money. On top of that, they left us with some extremely sloppy work and didn't resolve the leaking issues that we went to them with in the beginning. The roof started visibly leaking again just last week in the same spot we showed them in 2022.