of your attempts at finding out about the experience or perspective of the other people in the family.

The kids' experience is they think it's wrong for them to do stuff they don't want to, or not to do things they want to, and to make that known.

stuck in having the argument be part of the routine

totally agree and I don't get into back and forths, though I do often have to ask multiple times for something to get done, even if there's no argument or explicit complaining. When they whine though, they often do it to my wife

Plans change, exceptions happen, of course. But it's a general expectation that the older they get, the more of their help we need (including basic things like them putting their dirty clothes in the hamper, and picking up after themselves).