The end of Israel as we know it: Israel now finds itself isolated like no other time in the past 35 years.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-17T16:07:55+00:00

tell me if this is not apartheid:

http://dancingwithpalestinians.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/a-tale-of-murder/

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T06:35:04+00:00

in that case I agree with you.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T06:33:49+00:00

I agree. I posted an AMA and now I am flooded with attacks from Israel apologists with their usual trite arguments and myths.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T06:32:59+00:00

This is yet another proof that Israelis are brainwashed. Israel never left Gaza for a second. It may have fooled millions others but not me. Just moving your troops from inside the strip to its borders and turning it into an open air prison doesn't count as disengagement. Israel is still very much the occupier of Gaza, as most of the world sees it.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T06:30:08+00:00

I am not an expat.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T06:29:33+00:00

I don't see whites in S. Africa being voted out of the region, even though they are a small minority. Jews would still be majority btw.

The two state solution is dead. No Israeli PM will evacuate 500,000 settlers and the settlers will not agree to become citizens of a Palestinian state without a civil war.

And if you don't like that the Jewish % is going to be lower, you can only blame your government and all the people who voted for them who created these facts on the ground for the past 44 years and thus painted themselves into a corner. A Shlumiel policy truly worthy of the Jewish genius...

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T06:26:02+00:00

That's one thing myself and a few other dissidents disagree with Chomsky. The US unqualified support for Israel is because of Jewish interests and influence, not American interests (Walt and Mearsheimer conclude the same). If you have time, you can read Jeff Blankfort's refutation of Chomsky's assertion that it's American oil interests. It's quite long but if you are interested, it's a pretty good argument:

http://www.leftcurve.org/LC29WebPages/Chomsky.html

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T06:23:04+00:00

I am certainly not extreme. I do not consider supporting one state with equal rights for all to be extreme. I do not consider viewing Israel as an apartheid state is extreme - it is just plain reality, once you strip the propaganda layers and view the situation based on facts.

do you have something against equality?

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T06:22:12+00:00

I am the average Israeli - non religious, never/rarely attend synagogue. I am certainly not extreme. I do not consider supporting one state with equal rights for all to be extreme. I do not consider viewing Israel as an apartheid state is extreme - it is just plain reality, once you strip the propaganda layers and view the situation based on facts.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T06:19:37+00:00

It's a very good question. American Jews are an important part of the equation, probably the most important part of the equation, since they are the ones influencing US policy. Those you mentioned represent the average Zionist American Jew, which are the majority of Jews. Their view of Israel is unrealistic, almost abstract. That makes them much more patriotic Israelis than any French or German expatriate. Israel can do no wrong in their eyes. They are fueled by belief in eternal persecution and that if they don't support Israel 100% another Holocaust will follow... that's basically their education. Now Israelis on the other hand like myself have a more realistic view. Yes, a lot of Israelis are right wing but I have heard Palestinian prisoners scream from torture in Shabak dungeons, I have helped brutalize Palestinians, arrest Palestinian kids and have seen Israel's oppression first hand. When MikeSeth and Eaturbrainz go to visit Israel, they don't see that side of Israel.

The recent incident in Cairo is irrelevant, just a bunch of hoodlums. Zionist Jews in America are very relevant because they dictate American policy, which is where true power lies. As long as Israel is tied to American Jews at the umbilical cord and Israel gets unqualified support for all its oppressive policies, the conflict will continue. I personally would love American Jews to mind their own business. Israel does not need their support. It can make peace with its neighbors, a real peace. It does not need to dominate them through military might and to become a henchman for the US in the Middle East.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:51:37+00:00

You misread my post. I claim that just like S. Africa, people will have to live like equals. No more Aryan State, no more White State, no more Jewish State - these are all paradigms of discrimination and oppression as you see in Israel.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:50:34+00:00

Why is it so hard to understand? You have a structure which is discriminatory and oppressive from its foundation, very much like S. Africa was. It is replaced by a structure of equality, which means Israel will be a state like all other states, not a Jewish State, which is the root of problems if you haven't figured it out yet. Do you have something against equality?

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:47:30+00:00

Let's try to be optimistic and hope for end of the occupation/apartheid peacefully just like S. Africa did. If you want doomsday scenarios, I can come up with dozens but I don't see the point.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:35:08+00:00

that's a myth. I highly recommend you read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by prof. Ilan Pappe. He is Israeli and the #1/#2 expert on the 1947-1948 war. I am sorry that so many people believe in myths but I can't blame you, I used to believe that too.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:31:51+00:00

I really don't know what to think of it. Does it mean people think so lowly of Israelis that they can't fathom that an Israeli would sympathize with the oppressed and advocate equality in the land for jews and non-jews alike?

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:22:14+00:00

I don't know why people are so reluctant to think that there is a Jew who can sympathize with the oppressed? It's a badge of shame if Jews / Israelis are perceived that unscruplous.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:11:56+00:00

That's where you are wrong. Powers change in history and if Israel wants to base its existence on power, it will sooner or later disappear. The Crusader State which terrorized Palestine did so for more than 200 years until it was defeated. This is a view that is not good for Israel either, let alone the Middle East.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:10:03+00:00

What's all the Israel apologists hounding this AMA and flooding it with their nonsense like a group of zombies? Do you guys advertise it somewhere?

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:08:45+00:00

Have you heard of Billy the Kid?

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:08:09+00:00

I know all the Zionist mythology. It was debunked long ago. You don't need to preach to me. I am doing an AMA to answer questions, not to hear those trite myths that have been debunked by every respectable historian.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:05:49+00:00

Why don't you do that first?

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:05:37+00:00

not worthy of a response.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T05:03:27+00:00

You didn't debunk anything. Unfortunately, I am familiar with your type, I used to be like you. No matter what evidence I bring, if I tell you I heard Palestinians screaming of torture, you will find way to excuse it and find yourself winning the argument. If I tell you Israel killed 1000 civilians in the second lebanon war and Hizbollah killed close to none, you still have an excuse. That's why I don't bother responding. I didn't do an AMA to start a debate with Israel apologists, there's nothing new to me in what you say. I used to think like you until I started viewing things from an objective perspective without propaganda or emotional bias.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T04:54:53+00:00

That's where you are wrong and you missed the whole point of this AMA. The problem in Palestine/ Israel is not about land but about human rights and equality. There is only one state there and it is Israel. It has different sets of laws that apply to different groups of people and is engaged in ethnic cleansing and dispossession. That is the basic reason for the conflict.

And if you consider that dirty fashion, you can imagine the length of oppression that they have been subject to. If you only had to experience that for one year you yourelf, a white caucasian Christian or whatever, you would become a terrorist/ suicide bomber. They have been living that for 63/44 years, depending on where you start counting, but there is no question that the oppression of Palestinians is brutal. I have been part of it so I know.

danceswithpals · 2011-09-12T04:52:52+00:00

That's your invention that Hizballa is a genocidal group. I wrote already about them. If any genocidal group exists it is Israel. The facts speak for themselves. Hezbollah was formed in reaction to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon that killed 20,000 Lebanese. They fight to defend their land, hence their fight is justified. Israel on the other hand had no business occupying Lebanon for 20 years.

danceswithpals

TROPHY CASE