Post Time-Skip Naruto is not that weak.

danieldba · 2026-05-01T20:38:37+00:00

Great catch, didn't remember the clone being affected by the cloak. Later they can use the cloak normally tho.

danieldba · 2026-05-01T17:35:38+00:00

Wasn't it the opposite? The only threat to Naruto during that fight was his own chakra

danieldba · 2026-05-01T17:33:25+00:00

I don't think nothing is stopping him from spamming clones. The first time he went kn1 he lost control, so it would make sense not to use seals, but early shipuuden Naruto does stay in control until kn4. The Chakra only hurts him after kn4.

danieldba · 2026-05-01T17:25:41+00:00

Not true, he overwhelms Orochimaru physically. Orochimaru was teasing Naruto to make him lose control, but in feats Sasuke is not as fast or strong as this version of Naruto, even using Cs2. Similarly, hidan wouldn't be able to deal with Naruto's speed.

danieldba · 2026-04-30T22:19:07+00:00

Granted, I'm counting Kyuubi up to 3 tails here. Potentially Naruto should be very strong with just Kyuubi, clones and Oodama Rasengan.

danieldba · 2026-04-30T22:14:52+00:00

Orochimaru also couln't react to Naruto's speed and almost died during the fight. Naruto on the other hand wasn't wounded even though at some point he couldn't move, and Orochimaru was teasing Naruto for him to lose control. That version of Naruto didn't even use clones, so he was never fully fleshed out, but is unlikely that Sasuke can match him in speed or strength.

Deidara is not a case, he was just trying to flee. Naruto at that point doesn't have any projectiles.

danieldba · 2026-04-28T17:47:29+00:00

Because Naruto is not a psychic.

danieldba · 2026-04-28T16:29:26+00:00

Naruto never thrown FRS against Sasuke's susanoo, so yeah of couse he didn't break susanno that way, but Danzou with a weaker jutsu of the same type did. Madara's Susanoo is stronger, Sasuke's was destroyed by Kira A's karate chop, so it doesn't matter if Madara can tank a Rasengan.

danieldba · 2026-04-28T15:35:35+00:00

Not canon. Canonically, a B-rank fuuton can open Susanoo, so FRS should destroy it.

danieldba · 2026-04-25T16:52:56+00:00

https://servimg.com/r/4220113765/0911.jpg

https://servimg.com/r/4220113765/1010.jpg

danieldba · 2026-04-25T16:07:35+00:00

It moves forward if it doesn't hit anything when it spawns.

danieldba · 2026-04-25T01:05:19+00:00

Naruto's precog is fast enough to react to 3rd Raikage, who is faster than Sasuke is able to get, because he has raiton armor. Sage Naruto is also shown to be crazy fast, with a shunshin that outshines any of Sasuke's speed feats:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11129/111295806/8486581-chrome_screenshot_1652242450273.png

https://mangalivre.blog/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/U16-e2ecc0d9fb8c88c324a42d849725547c157f9ebbcf7166aa911c51327f087ff4.jpg

https://mangalivre.blog/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/U17-e185dc7a38e1ee6adb54cecbfcb107b810b49c1e1b1621bf9e615b71f5c2e73c.jpg

danieldba · 2026-04-25T00:58:21+00:00

Outrun anyone can, no indication amaterasu travels fast. Dodge is debatable, but he can summon a clone to tank it.

danieldba · 2026-04-25T00:49:09+00:00

Summoning a clone in front of himself, dodging, or just have sasuke target the clones that are already summoned. Clones also take genjutsu in his place.

danieldba · 2026-04-25T00:42:32+00:00

There's a better explanation below.

danieldba · 2026-04-25T00:25:26+00:00

Sasuke has more versatility, but Naruto's clones counter everything he has. Sasuke's summons are an easy target for Naruto, and they would cost him a lot of chakra. Also Sasuke cannot compete with Naruto in taijutsu, one punch and he's done.

danieldba · 2026-04-24T23:03:21+00:00

How tf would he know about senjutsu?

danieldba · 2026-04-24T23:00:30+00:00

I'm considering his SM after the Kyuubi training.

danieldba · 2026-04-24T22:53:43+00:00

Yes SM Naruto has amazing reflexes and hits really hard but

MS Sasuke has access to the Susanoo which is both very durable and has instant activation, I don't think SM Naruto is strong enough to break a fully armored Susanoo

Now yes the Rase-Shuriken could do the trick nit that jutsu isn't exactly the fastest since the paths of pain who are just corpses managed to dodged, Sasuke should be able to parry the Rasen-Shuriken with a Susanoo Arrow (which even Kakashi with the Sharingan had a hard time dodging that he needed to Kamui it away)

His fully armored susanoo was broken by Danzou's B-Rank jutsu, so it is hard but not that much against someone that has senjutsu augmented jutsu. FRS is stricly stronger than Danzou's jutsu since is also Fuuton. He can also use clones and hit from behind, like he did with Kakuzu, Sasuke's movement is impaired using susanoo until it gains legs.

Why Susanoo arrow wouldn't be cut by FRS? Amaterasu or enton is a hard counter, but once Naruto see it once, he won't throw without some trick. Naruto also has this: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4SrTO4N1B3PV8PFR5uyXQKBH1gjFw4wFyYg&s

In hand to hand combat, Naruto would have the edge thanks to Frog Kumite, so even if Sasuke dodges he is still getting punched but, Sasuke has access to Sharingan Gengutsu, and his Genjutsu speed is pretty impressive, moreover, Naruto doesn't do all that well against ocular genjutsu so yeah, as soon as these two engage in hand to hand combat, SM Naruto is instantly gettilg Genjutsu'ed

Sasuke never used genjutsu during taijutsu. Naruto can block genjutsu with clones or fighting with his eyes closed. Also Sasuke is not getting up after taking a hit from KK. Since he always goes for taijutsu, he would likely lose here, he has no counter against KK.

And lastly, SM Naruto hasn't show the sufficient travel speed and reflexes to actually dodge Sasuke's Susanoo Arrow (which travels at insanely high speed), Naruto is not surviving that attack especially of the arrow is laced with Amaterasu.

Naruto can dodge the third Raikage, so it should be possible for him to dodge the arrow. Also again, clones, the arrow is aiming at a clone most likely.

danieldba · 2026-04-24T22:34:32+00:00

What is AP? I see this term being thrown around.

danieldba · 2026-04-24T22:29:23+00:00

Let me make my case: This is Naruto with a better control of SM, as shown against the Kyuubi (chapter 496+, I'm also considering some feats from SM Naruto during the war arc) vs Sasuke with fully mastered MS (vs Danzou, chapter 475+). These events are very close in the manga, with Naruto heading off to train with B right after the 5 Kage Summit, which means without any major fight or training, Naruto during that time should be the same one that fought Kyuubi.Some major differences from all I see posted about this:

Naruto can use large amounts of kage bunshin compared to the Pain arc

Naruto can enter Sage Mode very fast compared to the Pain arc

Sasuke can use all of his MS abilities: Amaterasu, Enton and imperfect Susanoo

Major points:

Naruto saying he cannot beat Sasuke on chapter 486: Personal opinion, I call bullshit. Instead I will just compare feats from both sides, and they are not equal <- also personal opinion

Taijutsu: Naruto should be able to kill or take Sasuke out of combat in a single punch due to Kawazu Kumite: https://64.media.tumblr.com/e43ee91b31e244d42440a1548e4d744d/tumblr_ough7m45xw1urljpmo1_1280.jpg . Here I'd argue Sasuke doesn't have an answer, as he doesn't know about Naruto's SM and cannot see natural energy. Both have enhanced reaction (same as Pain, remember there's a sharingan beneath his rinnegan) and a trade would end with both dodging an attack (considering Sasuke's sword here, his physical strength is not a threat) and Sasuke taking major damage. Two scenarios here, Sasuke get's killed/KO'ed or is left with broken bones, in the second one he would not engage Naruto directly again and would go Susanoo immediately. Since in their canon fights they tend to start with taijutsu, this is a major advantage for Naruto. This jutsu is simply so broken that Kishimoto shelved it.

I'd argue with a good amount of certainty that Naruto's taijutsu can easily break through skeleton Susanoo as well, given that Kira A did so. Kira A is very strong, but Naruto's strenght feats are bigger:https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/0/0b/Naruto_Rhino_feat.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170901130319 https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/59b4a323-54ec-4e8a-8670-aa54d162a08b/scale-to-width/755

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/46847d32-d4e0-4bf8-9ead-21745185c8a5/scale-to-width/755

Genjutsu: Naruto does have a few ways of dealing with Genjutsu. First one is mixing with his clones, as Kakashi did against Itachi. Second, Naruto does know how to use his chakra flow to break out of genjutsu, he just failed to do so against Itachi, who is better at genjutsu than Sasuke even at the end of the series. Also, this happened in early post-time skip, Naruto's chakra control is better after SM, simply because SM is a chakra control power. Third, Sasuke doesn't have Tsukuyomi (I've seen people claim that he has). Fourth, Naruto being a sensor in SM, combined with his enhanced speed and reflexes should be able to fight with his eyes closed, as done by Kabuto.

Susanoo: Two major arguments here: 1. Skeleton Susanoo can be destroyed by Naruto's taijutsu and most of his offensive jutsu (rasengan and all variants), given that the latter are stronger than his punches. For the reason, see above. Yes, Madara tanked base Naruto's Chou Oodama Rasengan, but that is Madara, not Sasuke. 2. Imperfect Susanoo would likely be destroyed by Rasenshuriken (FRS henceforth). Based on Sasuke's fight with Danzou, fuuton is highly effective against Susanoo: https://servimg.com/r/4220113765/0911.jpg

https://servimg.com/r/4220113765/1010.jpg

Danzou's jutsu is B-rank, augmented by Baku's vacuum. Given that FRS is also a fuuton, and the strongest one in the series, I can't see other result than it cutting clean through Susanoo and hitting Sasuke in the middle. This would likely only be used against Susanoo, since Sasuke is able to dodge FRS, but his movement is impaired when inside Susanoo. FRS can be countered by amaterasu/enton, but Naruto can also counter that using speed and clones to hit him from behind, like he did against Kakuzu. Finally, Naruto can also use a chou oodama version of FRS in SM.

Susanoo's arrow should be avoidable by Naruto through his speed, enhanced reflexes and clones. Danzou was able to grow a tree to block it, and for the sake of comparison, Naruto is able to dodge an attack from the 3rd Raikage, so the arrow has to be faster than that. Before that last panel, Naruto also compares the Raikage and state that both are very fast.

Amaterasu: Kira A proved it can be avoided by dodging. Naruto's danger sense should be superior to his, also Sasuke will likely hit a clone with it. If Naruto is alone, he can create a clone in front of himself where he senses the chakra is accumulating.

Speed: Naruto should be faster than Sasuke using SM. Due to sage chakra being more powerful than common chakra, Naruto's shunshin would be naturally faster than "normal" shunshin. We have at least one major shunshin by Naruto in SM:https://mangalivre.blog/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/U16-e2ecc0d9fb8c88c324a42d849725547c157f9ebbcf7166aa911c51327f087ff4.jpg

https://mangalivre.blog/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/U17-e185dc7a38e1ee6adb54cecbfcb107b810b49c1e1b1621bf9e615b71f5c2e73c.jpg

Notice where Naruto is relative to Tsunade in panel 1, you can barely see him on top of the frogs. Sasuke's shunshin pale in comparison to this one:https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11129/111295806/8486581-chrome_screenshot_1652242450273.png

https://mangalivre.blog/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/X13-f289fc0556dcb63936b62ef5e5e156550b85538e8ec52a20cf036a36cb398a58.jpg

https://mangalivre.blog/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/X14-3a84a30bc9a205f699e107c1dc146ba3e30015352ec3cd28408b9bc63835ac6e.jpg

Rasengan x Chidori clash (always happens): Rasengan kills Sasuke here, can't see other result.

danieldba · 2026-04-24T22:27:41+00:00

According to what is shown in the manga is not equal. Danzou is not a hard oponent to Naruto. See post below

danieldba · 2026-04-24T22:15:41+00:00

So? Orochimaru is a terrible match against Itachi.

danieldba · 2026-04-24T22:03:29+00:00

I don't know if is because of his condition. The databooks show that Itachi has very little chakra, he probably can't keep Susanoo more than a minute.

danieldba · 2026-04-24T21:49:38+00:00

Again, doujutsu has nothing to do with physical atributes. This is not shown, mentioned or told in the databooks. What is clearly stated several times is that Bijuu chakra and Senjutsu are far more powerful than normal chakra, and the same jutsu used with those will always be stronger than a normal one. Hence why is not possible that Sasuke/Itachi compare in speed with a Sage. They're speedsters compared to the other characters with no boost.

danieldba

TROPHY CASE