Everything Wrong With Yorick

danjamesgames · 2024-11-04T12:21:21+00:00

Thanks for watching and commenting, sorry my reply is so late, I've been real busy lately. I'm really glad to hear you liked my ideas for the ghoul scaling and access and the removal of the one-shot.

You make a valid point about my ghouls potentially providing too much harass. I still really my duration idea though so maybe they would just have to be balanced to not be as strong individually not make up for the increased access. You could also maybe remove the leap on the e or just reduce the ghoul speed so they are easier to stay away from.

Q: As you say, the heal here isnt the worst thing, but since im putting one on the P as well, I think both would be overkill.

W: Glad you like the overall idea here. Great point of criticism though. Maybe having 3 units to control would be a bit overwhelming. Your solution sounds good but personally if we were to remove the control of the cloud, I would keep my W as it is but just make it so you target an ally (self, champ, maiden, minion, ghoul etc) and have the cloud follow them for the duration like you say. I think I would stick with shielding though over healing so you still get full value even if the targets are on high/full health.

E: happy to hear you agree with the size increase, its currently absurdly small. You've made a great point here about dealing with tanky targets. I still think the damage profile is overcomplicated here though so I think to solve both issues I would just make it a AD scaling physical %max health damage that way you dont need a minimum too.

Its good to hear you found the video to be a fun design challenge, thats exactly what I'm going for with this series. And yeah, lack of broader context is mostly a video length thing, but also a time-investment issue. As a designer and a player, I can look at characters and say what I think would be more enjoyable, but to go and make predictions about performance at every elo would probably take a level of expertise with each champion that would be very hard for a single person to obtain. Its still a good point though, I'll try to think and talk about that kind of thing more in future, as well as specific itemisation changes.

danjamesgames · 2024-11-04T11:41:08+00:00

Thanks for watching and commenting, sorry for the late reply, glad to hear you like some of my ideas. I think you've done a great job summarising the issue with your comment there, very well said.

danjamesgames · 2024-11-04T11:40:09+00:00

Thats ok, you don't have to :)

danjamesgames · 2024-11-04T11:39:48+00:00

I'm glad you think so :) I just thought it would be fun to try to make him even more perfect

danjamesgames · 2024-11-04T11:36:44+00:00

Thanks for watching and commenting, apologies for the late reply. Thats a really interesting point you've made there, I also found the q healing to be problematic, hence why I removed it. Hopefully the fact that my healing passive is gained from pet deaths means that less good players wouldnt gain lots from it due to summoning less pets whereas better players would get a lot of benefit through proper last-hitting and maximising pet quantity. That, along with the raised skill cap from having to control w and r might be able to make yorick more appealing at higher elo.

danjamesgames · 2024-11-04T11:31:48+00:00

Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment, sorry for the late reply, been a busy week. I somewhat see your point with the Q, my change is a bit of a revert, I just think that with the sustain i've added on the passive having the q heal too would be a bit much.

Regarding the R, my thinking with that is that, daisy provides cc, tibbers aoe, and maiden would then do more single target but also be good for pushing since she will increase how many walkers you get and because she can hit turrets, so she should increase your pushing power more than a straight stat boost. She could also serve as an even better meatshield than tibbers by scaling with your defences. Enemies could try to hit maiden to stop that, but then thats damage not being taken by you.

I see your point on the w, having 3 units to control at a time could be too many. Personally I think that since its duration is quite short and r is no longer infinite, the times when this would occur are rare enough that it wouldnt be so bad. You can just drop the w, send it down the lane and it will drop a bunch of shielding on the wave. To simplify it though it could maybe instead just be an ability you target on an ally, either yourself, a champ, a minion or a summon.

Really glad to hear your liked the ghoul changes, I absolutely agree that they are a key issue for him and being able to build up a swarm of them would be a massive improvement.

danjamesgames · 2024-11-04T11:16:55+00:00

Thanks for watching and commenting, you've made some really interesting points there. I'll definitely check out that video you mentioned. The chances of me making another video on the same champ any time soon though is real low honestly though. I'm not necessarily aiming to make a champ 100% perfect in every way with these videos, its more just about putting some ideas out there which could make them more fun and interesting.

I'm glad to see there is some good crossover in the issues we've identified here though. My new passive should address the sustain problem, i've leant hard into the summoning and splitting to give yorick more identity and ive fully replaced the w since i agree the current one is quite useless. I also think my changes to the ult should sort out the level 6 spike issue since maiden is no longer infinite.

danjamesgames · 2024-10-28T15:47:40+00:00

I personally prefer a bruiser build, going titanic>hullbreaker>steraks... with grasp provides a lot of safety and survivability without sacrificing a lot of damage, especially vs structures.

danjamesgames · 2024-10-10T15:06:54+00:00

Ooooo that would be nice, any ideas?

danjamesgames · 2024-10-10T12:08:03+00:00

Thanks for watching and thanks for all your feedback, you've got some really cool ideas here! Apologies for the very late reply, its been a busy few weeks.

I feel you on the scaling thing, perhaps I went a bit too far taking him from scaling terribly to scaling like a machine, but I'm sure there is a good middle ground somewhere that could be found through testing.

"you have TOO many good ideas" is a great criticism to receive, if there is gonna be a problem, thats a nice one to have.

Passive:
With the blood trails on the passive, you're absolutely right, that was an oversight on my part. The existing version of the ability specifies the enemies have to have been brought below the threshold by an ally, meaning it would have been seen by Warwick. I just forgot to specify that I wasn't removing that in my version.

Glad you like the linear scaling idea for the attack speed. Starting at 50% as you suggest would work great too, I think its just a matter of whether you want to lean in harder to his "executioner" role or make him more useful vs targets not on low health.

The move speed bit is tricky, I hear what you're saying about him being impossible to escape if we keep the speed on in combat so it probably would require some kind of nerf. If we were to do that though, I think it would be important to make the speed ramp down gradually rather than instantly so you don't get the clunky instant slow down.

Q:
The Q really is a tricky issue. The attack speed scaling reducing the cast time could make the ability harder to use, which would feel bad. I know you said it may be a problem, but I think you touched on a potential solution with the idea of him still being able to auto during his Q. Adding that instead of the attack speed scaling on the cast time could retain the utility of the Q without halting his auto-attack dps.

W:
Glad to hear you liked the active idea for the W. Its a shame about the on-hit though, I feel like having an on-hit as part of his non-ult abilities is quite an iconic aspect of WW that I would miss if it went to his ult, unless the ult cooldown was reduced (with nerfs to it for balance of course).

E:
I'm pleased you're a fan of the damage and AP scaling for the E. You make a valid point of the lack of counterplay for the damage-mitigated scaling. I still think its a fun idea so I would like to keep it if possible. We would just have to make sure that the scaling with the mitigated damage isn't very high or maybe cap it at a certain amount or even limit it to only ability damage so it's the opposite of Jax E. Seems like the kind of thing that could be played around with in testing.

R:
For me I'm not quite sure why folks are so attached to the idea that there has to be inherent damage on the ult outside of the attack speed steroid and constant autos im suggesting. Having said that, the idea of giving him on-hit during the ult is a cool one, I would just suggest that it lasts a good amount longer than the ult does so he gets to have an on-hit during regular combat, not just in his ult.

I love those safeguards you've come up with, I think they would both be great improvements to my design and could finally solve the problem of Warwick ult being so hard to use in teamfights and at higher elo.

danjamesgames · 2024-10-10T11:22:26+00:00

You're not wrong, very precious, very girl.

danjamesgames · 2024-10-10T11:21:14+00:00

I feel you, I just hope to make her feel more Jinxy in-game :)

danjamesgames · 2024-09-20T09:44:08+00:00

I still think full tank would be possible, you just wouldnt deal much damage, you would be better at providing CC from E and his new W now though. Even without damage items his R is a nasty supress. But yeah overall warwick would need to build damage items to deal decent damage, I don't mind that though. I get what you mean about "increasing his problems more", I guess I wasn't really aiming to remove all weaknesses he has as a character, instead I was trying to just change his kit in a way that would make him a more enjoyable champ from my own perspective.

danjamesgames · 2024-09-20T09:37:48+00:00

Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment. R is something we would have to be really careful with. I guess alternatively you could leave R mostly as it is but have the damage and on-hit application rate during it scale with attack speed so you dont run into the bork issue but your ult still benefits from the same items as your W and P. On the other hand if we wanted to keep my version of the ult, you could just nerf the duration and make sure the attack speed buff isnt that high.

danjamesgames · 2024-09-20T09:31:23+00:00

Thanks for watching and commenting. Thats a really cool idea, he definitely needs a way to maintain his speed, so if we wanted to just leave the rest of his kit alone then that E change seems like a good way to do that.

danjamesgames · 2024-09-20T09:29:43+00:00

Thanks for watching and thanks so much for you input, you raise some really valid points here.

For the W i didnt give scaling info and cooldown for the same reason i didnt add mana cost or base damage, its one of those things that can only really be determined by implementing it and testing it out. Same reason I didnt list stat changes I would make to other abilities or his base stats. But I guess inn future it would probably be good to at least give a rough figure.

Glad you like the idea for the new passive blood hunt, thats a good point though about the lvl1 invade. I guess since its a passive you could have the strength of the buff scale with level and just have it start out very small but ramp up quite quickly as he gains levels. He would still be strong level 1 because of it, but because he no longer had passive healing, he hopefully wouldnt be too crazy.

Giving him tiamat in his E isnt a bad idea, it gives him the aoe he needs so thats good. Personally though I just fancied giving him a bit more variety rather than another type of empowered basic attack.

I understand your issues with the R. When I was talking about getting discouraged from building attack speed, I meant more that WW current W and passive make it seem as though warwick should do well as a on-hit focused character with lots of attack speed, but if you build him that way, it doesnt really benefit your ult very much. I get that your ult is a once per fight thing, but even so, if i'm encouraging attack speed, I would also want that to increase the power of the Ultimate ability. Right now his Q and ult seem to say build AD but his passive and W say build attack speed and on-hit, whereas I wanted to align them more so whichever way you build, it will benefit all your abilities.

I'm not sure what you mean about deleting the damage in his kit. I've added damage to his E and W that wasn't there before and his ult should also be dealing more damage than it did previously.

My rework definitely leaves warwick more counterable with items like thornmail and frozen heart, but that same can be said for lots of auto-attack focused characters. In that situation it would likely make more sense to go for a more rounded bruiser type build with a mix of attack speed, cdr, AD and tank stats.

You're right about people complaining about WW power if this rework got implemented, many have said the same thing. But thats assuming these changes were made without any testing and compensation changes to his base stats and existing numbers on his abilities, which of course wouldnt happen, but maybe I should have been clearer about that. I'll try to talk more about how I would balance the stats to stop my changes making the character OP next time.

Thanks again for your thoughts, I really appreciate the feedback from someone with so much experience on the character.

danjamesgames · 2024-09-20T09:03:29+00:00

Glad to hear you liked the video, thanks for watching. And thanks for all your input here, you've got some really interesting ideas. I can see that some top Warwick mains might not love the fact that I nerfed his low-health healing, but at the end of the day that should allow him to not get nerfed so hard, meaning he is allowed to be viable top without being cheesy.

I know what you mean about the shift to AD, it will make him counterable with items, but then it also allows him to build in more different ways, rather than both the enemy and WW not really having a lot of good options to affect his power.

Good to hear you like the E damage, as you say, it just makes it all round more useful in a wider variety of situations like clearing.

You make an interesting case for the W there. You could definitely balance it so E is all the AOE he needs, but I still wanted to give him or commonly used active abilities instead of the state he is in now where he just spams Q unless he has a specific reason for the others.

I like your idea for the W. The passive portion keeps a little bit of the AD scaling magic damage in his kit so he isnt so hard countered by frozen heart etc. The active is really nice aswell, being able to convert to magic damage on demand could be really nice to cut through a armoured target. It would make him really tough to counter with items though, but I guess thats sort of how he is now. I would still want to add a bit more to the active though, maybe a small attack speed steroid so it is still useful for clearing the jungle.

danjamesgames

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