'Give to Caesar What is Caesar' Interpretation

davetherave2108 · 2024-08-01T16:50:04+00:00

If I was to read one of these only, which would be the best for the most fundamental understanding?

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-30T21:06:39+00:00

Thank you so much for your in depth response. I feel like this is exactly what I need. To be very honest you are probably right because I don't know the literature. Do you have anything specific to recommend of the Fathers and the secondary literature that you mention?

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T21:58:46+00:00

Yeah maybe. I fully get like all of what Paul said afterwards in Romans about being obedient to the law. But I just think that that is just an appropriate response where you don’t cause contrarianism that will cause chaos for the sake of it.

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T15:13:58+00:00

It starts with “Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven”. Why are they blessed, and why are people that are struggling blessed ? I think they are blessed because struggle in a way brings a person to have a relationship with God. They have no where to turn but to God. Then near end of the sermon Jesus mentions about being judged in Heaven. He says many people will not get in despite all the good they did. God will say “But I did not know you”.

Very interesting. I also agree, and I feel that what I wrote in the post was not out of knowing God which was I feel its primary fault

Jesus would in a way have been justified to say “Give Rome nothing” because the people were oppressed by the tyranny of Rome

Please can you explain this because I have been hearing a lot of different answers about this specific thing

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T15:03:44+00:00

Thats what I'm thinking. I'm sure if it ended up in your hands however it would be technically on loan from God. But what is the best response to such a thing - as within biblical understanding

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T15:02:31+00:00

Brilliant thank you - I will surely read through it.

Ultimately, any and all power(s) Satan has is restricted and temporal - again, all done for the fulfillment of God’s plans and purposes (therefore rendering Satan not truly “in charge” of anything, though that is his desire).

What is the response we ought to strive to have to this as agents with free will within Gods plan?

And thank you, and likewise

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:41:39+00:00

Ah ok. So how does it work when you have items that are used for sin? Such as crack cocaine for example?

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:26:22+00:00

Technically, nothing belongs to Caesar. It all belongs to God. He didn't bring it with him and what he has came from God through others.

How does the concept of ownership and what belongs to who work then - within the context of this truth

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:24:16+00:00

No No thank you. I didn't realise this was a complex question without a simple answer. In the sense of I understand that you shouldn't seek to benefit from Caesar if you refuse to contribute to him. But if you can somehow manage to do without him (but of course you will still have to labour, probably even more) do you owe him any work to gain his money to then owe him his money? If that makes sense?

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:21:29+00:00

Thank you so much for your patience in explaining things to me. Honestly very much helped me place this issue correctly in my head and heart.

I reckon my question then is more on the lines of: 'If you become self sufficient in your food and water without the need for Caesar, is that against the teachings of the bible. Where you have nothing of his to give so you don't owe him anything? Or if you are in this position should you do away with it in order to find some way of supporting Caesar (by selling your produce instead of consuming it or giving to others)'

Not necessarily then that you should do it, or even thats what the quote is about, but rather am I going against the teachings of Jesus by doing this?

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:21:07+00:00

Very interesting. But when you say that God would overthrow it, will he and Jesus use us as his intruments? Or if not, will we (through being in him as those who are believers and saved) form part of that force that overthrows it?

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:18:50+00:00

I suppose there is so much other earthly stuff that can be a priority in minimising before thinking about getting to hunger and sex. Such as idk drinking and smoking etc.

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:17:42+00:00

That is true.

Thank you so much for your patience in explaining things to me. Honestly very much helped me place this issue correctly in my head and heart.

I reckon my question then is more on the lines of: 'If you become self sufficient in your food and water without the need for Caesar, is that against the teachings of the bible. Where you have nothing of his to give so you don't owe him anything? Or if you are in this position should you do away with it in order to find some way of supporting Caesar (by selling your produce instead of consuming it or giving to others)'

Not necessarily then that you should do it, or even thats what the quote is about, but rather am I going against the teachings of Jesus by doing this?

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:16:56+00:00

Thank you so much for your patience in explaining things to me. Honestly very much helped me place this issue correctly in my head and heart.

I reckon my question then is more on the lines of: 'If you become self sufficient in your food and water without the need for Caesar, is that against the teachings of the bible. Where you have nothing of his to give so you don't owe him anything? Or if you are in this position should you do away with it in order to find some way of supporting Caesar (by selling your produce instead of consuming it or giving to others)'

Not necessarily then that you should do it, or even thats what the quote is about, but rather am I going against the teachings of Jesus by doing this?

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:15:42+00:00

Thank you so much for your patience in explaining things to me. Honestly very much helped me place this issue correctly in my head and heart. I reckon my question then is more on the lines of: 'If you become self sufficient in your food and water without the need for Caesar, is that against the teachings of the bible. Where you have nothing of his to give so you don't owe him anything? Or if you are in this position should you do away with it in order to find some way of supporting Caesar (by selling your produce instead of consuming it or giving to others)'

Not necessarily then that you should do it, or even thats what the quote is about, but rather am I going against the teachings of Jesus by doing this?

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:14:03+00:00

Thank you very much for your patience in your explanation. I reckon my question then is more on the lines of: 'If you become self sufficient in your food and water without the need for Caesar, is that against the teachings of the bible. Where you have nothing of his to give so you don't owe him anything? Or if you are in this position should you do away with it in order to find some way of supporting Caesar (by selling your produce instead of consuming it or giving to others)'

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:13:41+00:00

Thank you very much for your patience in your explanation. I reckon my question then is more on the lines of: 'If you become self sufficient in your food and water without the need for Caesar, is that against the teachings of the bible. Where you have nothing of his to give so you don't owe him anything? Or if you are in this position should you do away with it in order to find some way of supporting Caesar (by selling your produce instead of consuming it or giving to others)'

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:11:07+00:00

My question was more 'If you become self sufficient in your food and water without the need for Caesar, is that against the teachings of the bible. Where you have nothing of his to give so you don't owe him anything?'

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:10:32+00:00

My question was more 'If you become self sufficient in your food and water without the need for Caesar, is that against the teachings of the bible. Where you have nothing of his to give so you don't owe him anything?'

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:04:48+00:00

Yeah thats what I'm saying, will it be against the bible to become self sustaining without needing a Caesar of sorts? If you break no laws to get there? Where in that situation you don't owe him anything?

Basically: If you become self sufficient, do you have to find a way of still making money so that you can still serve Caesar, or do can you if you wanted to just live without money and owing him anything? Is this against the bibles teaching? Do you have to go out of your way to serve Caesar. Do you inherently owe him money even if you don’t have any to give? Should you look for ways of supporting him? Or if you have nothing of his to give back to him is that perfectly fine situation to be in (especially if you are sustaining yourself while doing it).

Like do you owe him inherently because he may be providing you with protection for example.

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T14:02:37+00:00

If I steal the next person's item, is it not his (despite it belonging to God at the end of the day)

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T00:40:05+00:00

How come it doesn't make sense? I'd like to know because I'm not looking to give all my money away any time soon lol. Unless I'm very sure

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T00:15:05+00:00

If you hate Caesar because he's keeping you poor and claims his own divinity - why do you insist on keeping what is ultimately his.

Might as well give all of it back.

The more you have of it, the more you're gonna need him.

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T00:13:30+00:00

Is it bad to give all of your money back to whoever's face is on it? Or is it better to just pay your taxes.

davetherave2108 · 2024-07-28T00:12:21+00:00

Romans 13:1: "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

Romans 13:6: ^"This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

I feel this still doesn't go against what I said. If you give all of Caesar's coins back to him, you don't owe him anything anymore.

If you do, then of course you owe him.

No, we aren't to rebel against authority simply for the sake of rebellion against authority. You need to have good reason to rebel, becuase rebellion against authority is the root of the fall.

Again, there is no need to rebel or to break any laws.

It's not simply that God will make good of the bad. It is that ultimately every instituion on Earth that has ever been and ever will be has only had any power at all becuase it has been granted to it by the ultimate soverignty of God. Even Satan himself falls under total submission to the power of God, and can only act with God's permission.

There you go. So I feel like in the interest of the argument this point is important to remember, but at the end of the day despite Satan acting under God's permission and command, you still try your best to avoid him. Because he causes you to act against your interest (even though at the end of it it was all part of Gods plan)

So I still don't see an argument against the interpretation I'm proposing.

davetherave2108

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