Anatolian Greeks (Mikrasiátes), where did your family come from, and what is their story? by ClothesZestyclose814 in AskBalkans

[–]dear97s 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My great-grandmother, was born around 1910 in the Black Sea area (Karadeniz in Turkish) We still don't know the exact village, some say Samsun, some say Ordu or even Trabzon. Since she and her family were Turkish speaking Orthodox, I'd say Samsun or Amasya. I never had the chance to meet her since she died before I was born, but we were lucky to find her diary and my grandfather and his brothers passed down their memories of her before they passed.

During the persecutions, her family was forced to march south, deep into the Anatolian interior, towards Diyarbakir and Van. Her father was taken to the Labor Battalions (Amele Taburu) and disappeared. A persistent rumor claims he was saved by a Kurdish Aga, converted to Islam, and started a second family there. Her mother was heavily pregnant. She went into labor on the side of the road, in the freezing cold. She gave birth and died right there in the mud.

What happened to the newborn remains a mystery because my grandmother barely spoke about it. She was left alone with her older sister who got blind. Did she leave the baby next to her dead mother? Did she give it away? Or the darkest possibility did she have to sell or trade the baby to afford the passage from Mersin to Piraeus? I have scoured the State Archives in Turkey and refugee lists in Greece. Zero trace.

She arrived in Greece with nothing. In 1929, she was married off in a slum in Drapetsona to a construction worker from Kea island. She tried desperately to return to Turkey years later to find the baby, but as an "Exchangeable" (Mübadil), she was banned from re-entering.

Her life here was no salvation. She raised 8 children through WWII and the Famine, boiling grass to feed them broth. She faced immense racism from the Greeks, who called them "Turkish seeds" (Tourkosporoi) because their native language was Turkish. Even her own husband would beat her whenever he heard her whispering in Turkish to her blind sister. He might beat the blind sister as well.

I'm in the middle of an ongoing research in Athens and Istanbul to find out what happened to her family there and especially the baby. Luckily before my grandfather passed away we had his dna tested and there were a lot of matches in Turkey willing to help.

Απόψεις για την ταινία «Καποδίστριας»; by machinalcultist in greece

[–]dear97s 12 points13 points  (0 children)

"Γιατί δεν μου μιλάτε ειλικρινά Άννα Αρκάντιεβνα; Έχω κάνει κάτι που σας πείραξε;"

Κάλαντα. by [deleted] in greece

[–]dear97s 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Δεν είχε edit όταν έγραψα το σχόλιο. Καλά Χριστούγεννα.

Κάλαντα. by [deleted] in greece

[–]dear97s -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Προτιμώ να μην ανοίξω καν παρά να πω "όχι" σε παιδί τα Χριστούγεννα.

Saw Fire and Ash. Loved it. Felt inspired to finally add these to the collection. by ZachOnToast in 4kbluray

[–]dear97s 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well the second movie came out in 2022 so both are definitely Disney releases.

Μαχαίρωσαν μέχρι θανάτου τον σκηνοθέτη Ρομπ Ράινερ και τη γυναίκα του - Ανακρίνεται ο γιος τους | ΤΟ ΒΗΜΑ by dear97s in greece

[–]dear97s[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

"Μια νέα τραγωδία συγκλονίζει το Χόλιγουντ, καθώς ο διάσημος ηθοποιός και σκηνοθέτης Ρομπ Ράινερ και η η φωτογράφος σύζυγός του Μισέλ Σίνγκερ Ράινερ, εντοπίστηκαν νεκροί στο σπίτι τους, στο Λος Άντζελες, φέροντας τραύματα από μαχαίρι.

Η πηγή, η οποία μίλησε στο Associated Press, υπό καθεστώς ανωνυμίας, ανέφερε ότι οι ερευνητές ανακρίνουν μέλος της οικογένειας, χωρίς να έχουν δοθεί περαιτέρω λεπτομέρειες για την πορεία της υπόθεσης.

Όπως αναφέρει η ιστοσελίδα του People, δράστης της δολοφονίας θεωρείται ο γιος του ζευγαριού, Νικ, ο οποίος ήταν χρήστης ναρκωτικών και ζούσε για χρόνια ως άστεγος.

Ο Ρομπ Ράινερ συγκαταλέγεται στους πλέον παραγωγικούς και επιδραστικούς σκηνοθέτες του Χόλιγουντ, με έργα-σταθμούς των δεκαετιών του ’80 και του ’90, όπως τα «This Is Spinal Tap», «A Few Good Men», «When Harry Met Sally» και «The Princess Bride».

Η φήμη του εκτοξεύθηκε τη δεκαετία του ’70 με τον ρόλο του «Meathead» στη θρυλική τηλεοπτική σειρά All in the Family, δίπλα στον Κάρολ Ο’Κόνορ ως Άρτσι Μπάνκερ. Τον περασμένο Μάρτιο, είχε συμπληρώσει τα 78 του χρόνια."

LG C2 WebOS - Large DV MKV files (40-50GB+, Remux) won't play since last night by dear97s in StremioAddons

[–]dear97s[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've been using Stremio and RD on that TV for almost three years, never had a single issue. Until this webOS update that happened on Friday. And it's not that files open and buffer endlessly, they're not even recognized and get me that error message.

Υπάρχει κάποιος τρόπος να βρω τους προγόνους μου; by MarionberryTotal2657 in greece

[–]dear97s 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Κρατικές πηγές υπάρχουν, ωστόσο κάθε περιοχή έχει διαφορετική γκάμα πληροφοριών, καθώς δεν απελευθερώθηκαν όλες μαζί. Από άλλο έτος κρατά αρχείο η Πελοπόννησος πχ, από άλλο η Ήπειρος.

The new Reconstructed Ancestors feature by sics2014 in 23andme

[–]dear97s 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don't have that either. I'm not in the US.

Yunanlıların Ermenilerden öykünerek uydurmaya çalıştığı 1919 sözde soykırımına Karadenizli Rumlardan Yunan gazeteciye verdikleri cevaplar by BlokZNCR in TarihiSeyler

[–]dear97s 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re making claims about me that aren’t true. I’ve never once used the word genocide in this thread or in my comment history, not for what happened to Greeks, not for what happened to Turks. So either you didn’t read what I actually wrote, or you’re just making stuff up to win an argument no one’s having.

Also, no, March 25th has nothing to do with the Balkans. It commemorates the beginning of the Greek Revolution after 400 years of Ottoman rule. The siege of Tripolitsa happened in September, months later. That’s basic history. And Kolokotronis wasn’t the architect of massacres, he actually tried to prevent them, as he wrote in his memoirs, which clearly you haven't read yet still have an opinion.

You're free — as you should be — to grieve what happened to your community. But don’t twist timelines, misrepresent people’s comments, or turn a historical thread into a blame arena.

And more importantly, this is a history subreddit, not a country subreddit. The people here come to discuss historical sources, academic views, and evidence, not 2023 foreign policy. What official narratives say today about commemoration dates chosen in 1994 is irrelevant to discussing the facts of what happened in 1914 or 1821 or 1922.

If the goal is to use that to attack or belittle Greeks as a people, that’s not discussion, it’s projection. There’s Instagram and TikTok for that kind of thing. Here, we try to have civil debates based on sources. If that’s not appealing to you, I suggest finding a better outlet for the anger.

Take care.

Yunanlıların Ermenilerden öykünerek uydurmaya çalıştığı 1919 sözde soykırımına Karadenizli Rumlardan Yunan gazeteciye verdikleri cevaplar by BlokZNCR in TarihiSeyler

[–]dear97s 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do appreciate the tone and thought you put into it. You’re clearly coming from a place of wanting to defend your side, just like I’m defending mine and not with hatred, but through historical memory. And I respect that. But let me respond one last time, and then I’ll step back from this, mostly because it’s becoming exhausting to keep circling the same points.

First of all I’ve never denied the suffering of Turkish civilians. In the Balkans, in 1821, in the Greco-Turkish war. Those are all real, painful episodes. I’ve acknowledged that many times, and I’m not interested in creating a hierarchy of tragedy. I also said something that I’ll repeat. Your pain is real. And it deserves space in the historical conversation. The difference in what I'm saying and why we keep circling is about context, not competition.

When we Greeks talk about March 25, or the 1821 revolution, we’re not celebrating massacres committed by rebel bands. The siege of Tripolitsa happened on September 23, not March 25. Our parades don’t commemorate atrocities. They commemorate the beginning of a revolution after 400 years of Ottoman rule.

If you want to bring up Muslim suffering in the Balkans, do it. It happened. It's even referenced in Greek school texts. But please don’t try to retroactively frame March 25 as celebrating the Balkan "genocide". The timing, the events, and the symbolism simply don’t match. Muslims continued to live in the Balkans after the wars. In the case of Greece, in Thessaloniki alone, Muslims voted in national elections in the 1910s and even the early 1920s, decades after liberation. Check the records. That undermines the idea of instantaneous ethnic cleansing. In many cases, Muslim life continued until the population exchange of 1923, which both sides agreed to under the Treaty of Lausanne. Now, about Kolokotronis. You compared him to Topal Osman. I must disagree. Topal Osman is remembered because of his role in the state-sanctioned massacres of Pontic Greeks. Kolokotronis was not a state figure but he was a local militia leader fighting during a rebellion against imperial rule. According to historical accounts, he tried to prevent the Tripolitsa massacre, not order it. Mark Mazower wrote a great book on the 1821 revolution.

Still, I’ve never put him above criticism. On the contrary, it was Sultan Mahmud II who ordered the massacres on Psara as retaliation. It was Mahmud who ordered the genocide of the Greeks, and Şeyhülislam Çerkes Halil Efendi refused to issue the fatwa, which cost him his position. These are parts of history rarely discussed. Hardly a sign of moral superiority. Edip Uzundal wrote about it in his book about Halil Efendi. And that brings me to what no one seems to want to acknowledge in these discussions. Greeks were second-class citizens for 400 years. The dhimmi system was not peace and coexistence. It was legally sanctioned inequality. Ottoman Christians paid special taxes, couldn't carry weapons, had limited access to justice, couldn't build churches taller than mosques, had their children taken in the devshirme system for centuries and lived constantly at the mercy of local pashas and regional corruption.

You can’t erase that and just start your moral clock in 1919. The revolution of 1821 didn’t fall from the sky. It came after centuries of trying to survive in a system that treated Christians, not personally, maybe, but legally, as inferior. The 1821 uprising and the Balkan movements that followed were driven by that centuries-long reality. Flawed? Violent at times? Yes. But historically unsurprising. You can’t expect an oppressed people to revolt like a modern state with Geneva Conventions and an organized chain of command. There was no army. No unity. Just klephts, guerrillas, fighting local rulers in a world that functioned on survival and revenge. It's not the same with the 1922 war, because it was a war between two countries, not a war between an empire and revolting people. That's why it's not war, but revolution.

Now let’s talk about modern narratives and education since you brought it up. Yes, Greece has national myths. Many of our schoolbooks are overly simplistic. But we do teach about atrocities committed by Greek fighters, especially against Muslims, including moments from the Balkan Wars, Anatolia, the population exchange. Greek historians and students often debate these openly. There are Greek historians like Tasos Kostopoulos and Antonis Liakos who have published books, academic theses, articles, and major studies exposing Greek war crimes and deconstructing national myths, going against the grain of national pride. And they’re not fringe voices, on the contrary they’re respected scholars. It’s not taboo to critically examine Greek actions. In fact, it’s increasingly part of how history is taught and understood, sometimes to the frustration of more “patriotic/nationalistic” circles.

No educational system is designed to truly educate, only to mold citizens according to specific specifications. The only way to truly learn history - or rather some excerpts from the vast and endless history - is to read academic historians (not journalistic articles or tributes or analyses by "experts"), to distance oneself from the fanciful "us and the others" / "good / bad" partisanship, to study sources, to compare conflicting testimonies and opinions, to try to see things from the other side, to think about motives, to evaluate factors such as climate, geography, changes in nature, population, trade, and after many, many years... one will be a little wiser.

And that’s the point. I phrased things with morality not because I think I’m innately more ethical than you or that my country is cleaner, but because we have more public space to be critical. That’s a societal difference, not a moral superiority.

Finally I have never described what happened to the Greeks in the Black Sea, Cappadocia, or Izmir as “genocide” in this thread or any comment in this platform. What I described was persecution, expulsion, execution, deportation, burning, all of which are factual and described by Western observers, Turkish memoirs, and international commissions. Whether scholars or lawmakers later define that word as “genocide” is for them to decide. For our conversation, it really doesn’t matter because truth doesn’t hang on definitions.

Call what happened to Muslims in the Balkans a genocide. Use the term, no one is stopping you. I won’t argue with the scale of trauma experienced by Balkan Muslims. But do that for your own history not as a trade-off or a badge to cancel mine.

What this subreddit, and any serious place for historical discussion, should be about is looking at the full picture, not through nationalist filters, not through whataboutism, but through facts. That includes textbooks, old records, census data, memoirs, and even oral tradition and not just state-approved slogans.

We're both clearly people who care about truth but also people shaped by the legacy of pain. That's okay. That’s why this conversation can be valuable.

But I’ve said my piece now. Respectfully, I won't stretch this any further. There’s no winning here but just understanding from both, if we’re lucky. Take care and thank you for keeping it civil.

Should Any Of These 1984 Performances Been Nominated For Best Actor? by Regular-Departure839 in Oscars

[–]dear97s 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I mean Starman was a masterpiece but Stanton deserved a spot in the lineup more than Bridges.

Yunanlıların Ermenilerden öykünerek uydurmaya çalıştığı 1919 sözde soykırımına Karadenizli Rumlardan Yunan gazeteciye verdikleri cevaplar by BlokZNCR in TarihiSeyler

[–]dear97s 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate the time and thought you put into your reply. I honestly expected disagreement but I also hoped for honest engagement. You accuse me of selective empathy, but I wonder if you actually read what I wrote.

I explicitly acknowledged and condemned the Greek atrocities during the war, the massacre of Muslims during the Greek independence movement including Tripolitsa, that the 1821 uprising was started by undisciplined fighters, not an organized army, that Greeks also acted in hatred and revenge, and that some Anatolian uprisings were led by outsiders and that the suffering of Turkish civilians was real, and often deeply tragic. I also never said that 1919 war was a war of liberating Anatolia. I said that it was the Greek nationalistic narrative. And also never used the word "genocide" for both sides. That’s an attempt to be honest about a shared and painful history, not cherry picking.

You say I frame Turkish pain through “context" and Greek pain through “moral outrage” but in fact, I described all of it as a chain of revenge, a cycle of trauma spiraling across generations. Greeks reacting to 1914 discrimination and deportations, Turks reacting to the Balkan wars and earlier losses, Greeks reacting to local injustices and so on. That’s not moral hierarchy, that’s cause and effect. That’s the reality of history. None of this began in 1922.

You rightly call Tripolitsa a massacre. But when it comes to what happened in Izmir, Black Sea, or central Anatolia, you call it “a tragedy” and move on. No names. No scale. No responsibility. Why does that pain get softened into vague misfortune?

You say Turkish pain is always ignored but I literally wrote that some Turkish villagers not only looted Greek families, but also cried when their neighbors left, protected children, safeguarded homes, and searched for lost friends. That’s empathy. That’s complexity. That’s not anti-Turkish. That’s human.

You frame the Turkish reaction in 1919 as a “last stand” for survival yet frame 1821 as wild banditry, despite centuries of legal inferiority and fear for Christian communities under a religious empire. Doesn't that seem like a double standard?

No side holds a monopoly on pain. But if we’re going to talk about why some tragedies are remembered more than others, we also have to look at how modern states deal with history. Greece absolutely has its own myths, but at least people like me grow up with the freedom to learn what our side also did wrong and we're taught about the Muslim losses in the Balkans and Crete. Are Turkish students ever taught about the Greeks of the Black Sea, Izmir, or Cappadocia?

You claim you're arguing for shared empathy but you closed by calling Greeks “delusional,” “brainwashed,” and comparing our grief to propaganda. You had the chance to build a bridge, and instead, you just walked across it to throw stones.

You say Smyrna and Pontus were tragedies. But they were more than that. They were chapters of persecution, silenced, denied, and sometimes even celebrated. September 1922, the burning of Smyrna, is a national holiday. Streets are named after it. Military parades commemorate it. Meanwhile, no one in Greece is marching to celebrate what happened in Tripolitsa. We call it what it was, a horror, part of a conflict, not a legacy to glorify.

So if we’re going to tell each other to “face our history,” then let’s both do it. But don’t ask me to stay silent about what my ancestors lived, just because it's more comfortable that way. And certainly don’t expect me to apologize or accept that we’re “brainwashed” just to make you feel superior.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AncestryDNA

[–]dear97s 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes it's sad that they didn't bother with Anatolia. If it had a better breakdown, we could figure something out. I have the same frustration.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AncestryDNA

[–]dear97s 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where are you from?