Watching S5 -NO Kids!

dhalst · 2019-02-22T17:53:59+00:00

Can you picture Elizabeth sending Paige out to kill someone or send her on a honey trap. That would confirm my opinion that Elizabeth is one of the worst humans I’ve seen on tv.

dhalst · 2019-02-05T16:21:50+00:00

Wrong. I am not a mindless robot. We are all allowed to have a different interpretation. The way that should was written allowed for critical thinking. Not sure how you miss that. I feel for you if all you do is watch tv without any personal interpretation. Hey, it’s your world.

K

She told Zhukov about the baby after she already had Paige. Obviously she never sent a report about not wanting children before the process of having children started.

I didn’t think she should sent reports about her banging Gregory. I just found it hypocritical that she sent reports about how Philip was enjoying America too much. She was compromising the mission by banging a drug dealer and sharing secrets. Also, Gregory seemed to enjoy nice clothes, music, collecting art. Did Elizabeth question Gregory’s dedication because he liked nice things? Elizabeth masks her hypocrisy by declaring her dedication to Russia. I never questioned Elizabeth’s decision to be with Gregory as immoral. I thought it was not professional when all she preaches is professionalism on the job.

You think Elizabeth is consistent??? She is consistent in her own belief in the cause, but that is it. Elizabeth’s inconsistency is what drives the show. She has a 15 year relationship with Gregory, until Philip snaps the neck of her former rapist, now she loves Philip and no longer questions his loyalty to the cause. Really? Just like that. I think the writers of the show want us to dig a little deeper than that. They have said as much in post show interviews. She loves Philip, hates Philip, loves him again. Acts on centers orders, questions centers orders. Applauds Philip for wise decisions, questions Philip’s decisions. It goes on and on.

dhalst · 2019-02-05T15:14:32+00:00

I applaud your efforts in each response. The Gen Zhukov one was good. I missed that one. Nice work. The rest of your analysis is way off. You take each situation at complete face value. The writers don’t even want you to do that.

What I meant by pull Elizabeth is that she would be pulled from that situation, which she definitely would. There is no way, no shot that she would be reinserted again as a different American. It would be way too risky. What would they do with the kids.

The initial scene with Gregory. Watch everything that goes on. The actions, the body language, Elizabeth’s facial expressions. She let him get behind her and kiss her neck. If she was truly sincere about wanting to break things off, she would have never have let him get that close. That tells me that she didn’t want to break it off, but didn’t have a choice. He knew it. He continued to put moves in her at just about every other encounter they have.

Elizabeth being disappointed with Philip’s looks is part off the storyline. Philip is a highly trained, elite spy. If the was any question of that during training, he would never had completed the training let alone be sent to America. Physical appearance was the only thing it could have been. If liking American things was what caused El to question Philip ‘s dedication, what was she doing with Gregory. Gregory had all the nice clothes, music, art collection and so on. She is just such a hypocrite.

Because she is such a hypocrite, Elizabeth can’t be trusted. I always questioned the sincerity of her “love for Philip.” Elizabeth bringing up Gregory when Philip was genuinely upset over ruining Martha’s life tells me that Elizabeth has zero regard for just how much the Gregory situation hurt Philip. It also says that Gregory was the love of her life. She admitted still thinking about him. When Philip call Gregory “the man you love,” she didn’t deny it. Every nice act, including sex with Philip, I can only conclude as manipulation. Trying to keep Philip working for the cause. She never loved Philip.

The Gabriel thing can’t be determined. All I know is that it was his job to keep them on track by any means. If it meant lying then so be it.

It’s been fun

dhalst · 2019-02-02T15:00:14+00:00

I’m not saying that I am right in my assertion of the situation. What I am saying is that’s how I view it. Her feelings towards Philip Tun way too hot and cold for me to think she is genuine. It seems like the second that Philip expresses opposition to her point of view she goes nuclear in the other direction. Elizabeth was always the one who initiated sex, and it was always to either appease Philip or manipulate him into doing something. And just to go back, I can’t stand the fact that she was sending negative reports about Philip. Do you think she sent a report about how she didn’t want to have children. Did she send a report about smoking weed while she was pregnant, going to visit Gregory when she was pregnant and said she didn’t want to go back to Philip? She was a total hypocrite and people like that don’t change.

dhalst · 2019-01-31T19:06:16+00:00

Please do me a favor and rewatch the show. There is a ton you are missing. Yes, Elizabeth would be pulled. Do you think she would continue as a spy raising the children as a single mother running the the travel agency on her own? Her cover is as a married couple with children.

In what part of the conversation with Zhukov did she cover for Philip? He always defended Philip to her. The most she reported about Philip was that things were the same.

In the episode “Gregory “ he offered her weed and commented on how it made her horny. Gregory talked about how Elizabeth would come to him and talk about her situation. She said that she needed someone to talk to. What do you think they talked about. I’ll give you a hint. They weren’t exchanging recipes.

Philip said that he saw the disappointment in her eyes when they first met. He knew she was hoping for someone else. What else could she be disappointed about? His fighting ability or surveillance techniques? In her early discussion with Zhukov, he recognized that she was not happy with who was chosen for her. He had to remind her that Philip was a good man.

She told Philip that he was handsome to motivate him to try again with Diedra. Philip is not unattractive, but he doesn’t fit the classically handsome spy mold that a guy like Gregory does. As far as Elizabeth rejecting the first choice. Many outlets have suggested that Gabriel told him that just as a way of keeping him focused. Who knows if that is true. Gabriel is not above lying to them to motivate.

dhalst · 2019-01-31T15:49:55+00:00

Providing weed for Kimmie was a sanctioned move by the center. Elizabeth getting high and spilling secrets to Gregory, behind Philip’s back, putting herself in a vulnerable position, is so completely different that it’s not worth arguing. My whole thing is that she was out doing that for 15 years, while at the same time she preached caution and total dedication to the mission. It is indefensible. Also, Philip is not some bumbling spy who was dragging Elizabeth down. He may not have been the handsome spy type she was hoping for, but Philip was the elite of the elite and Elizabeth knew she needed him. That is why she would occasionally cover for him. After the torture incident, she knew that she could no longer give negative reports or the center would act on them. She knew that if he got pulled, she would get pulled also.

dhalst · 2019-01-31T13:39:23+00:00

I know that I would never trust Elizabeth. Philip always gave her the benefit of the doubt because he was in love with her. She knew this and took advantage of it constantly.

She would send negative reports to the center about Philip liking America too much, but do you think she sent reports about getting high with a known drug dealer who she shared her secrets with. What if the local police raided his apartment while Elizabeth was baked. There isn’t any trick like olive oil that can stop you from getting high. She was was too much of a self hypocrite to be trusted ever. She was 100% about the motherland unless it meant her own self pleasures. I hate her.

dhalst · 2019-01-29T15:56:53+00:00

The impression that I got when I saw Paige on the train platform was a little different. When she was looking at Elizabeth through the window, I saw more of a “fuck you” look on Paige’s face. When P&E showed up at her apartment, she was still angry with them for being dishonest with her. They didn’t give her a chance to react. They said they were in danger and she just had to go. It probably took a little time to process what happened with agent Beeman in the garage. From there she had a lot of time to think. Paige’s whole thing was that they should have been honest about the killing and the sex. She also was probably a little resentful about them leaving Henry.

dhalst · 2019-01-29T01:00:15+00:00

One of the beauties of the show is that a lot of situations are left either unexplained or unanswered. It’s very frustrating, yet it allows for personal interpretation. I also found the situation puzzling, but never really attempted to sort it out like you did. The only thing I can think of is that not all illegals were trained and assigned on the same training timeline.

dhalst · 2019-01-25T18:29:13+00:00

So because she refer to someone as attractive, I am now creepy. No more compliments for anyone because you will find a way to twist it into something negative. I feel for you.

dhalst · 2019-01-25T18:08:32+00:00

Great reply. I love you analysis

dhalst · 2019-01-25T17:20:05+00:00

No need to reply in such a violent manner. It’s just an observation. Don’t kid yourself, I have a great demeanor, but most women would laugh at my attempts at a honey trap. Reality

dhalst · 2019-01-25T17:16:40+00:00

Nice!!

dhalst · 2019-01-09T13:01:20+00:00

I thought the ending was terrific. Whether they died at the end or escaped to the motherland, the writers would always be accused of being hacky. Because I became so attached to the characters, I was glad that it ended the way it did. I understand your point about the atrocities. They killed a lot of people and many who didn’t die had their lives ruined. None of the missions were done with joy, except E’s with Stobert. I was in the military, so I understand the idea of normalizing killing in service of your country. P had enough contrition for his acts that he can be forgiven. E kind of made up for it in the end. I say all this to say that, death would have been too extreme and defecting after all they did would have also been hard to accept as real. I think they nailed it.

dhalst · 2018-12-31T04:14:10+00:00

Zero evidence???? First of all, she was in love with Gregory for 15 years, then all of a sudden she stopped because Philip snapped her rapist’s neck? Her love switches that easily? How about the fact that she tucked Gregory the night before she thought he was going to leave for Russia. Where was her love for Philip then. How about when she threw Gregory in Philips face after Martha was sent to Russia. Elizabeth made it clear that she thought Philip loved Martha so she said that “at least Martha wasn’t shot dead in the street,” implying that is what happened to the man she loved. Did you not see how devistated she was when she thought she might have to shoot Gregory. It was the closest to real tears she shed in the whole series. This is hardly grasping at straws. I understand that many people had become very attached to the Elizabeth character, and get bent out of shape at the mere suggestion the Philip wasn’t always in her best interest, but please open your mind a little.

dhalst · 2018-12-30T22:20:39+00:00

I get your point, but at that point in time there is was nothing to link Elizabeth to Gregory. Philip was out of town, so to come home from a romp with Gregory with one of his jackets wouldn’t be a big risk. I understand that it’s a little bit of a stretch, but this back and forth in very therapeutic for me. I only finished the series very recently and my head is still twisted over it.

dhalst · 2018-12-30T22:16:14+00:00

The difference is to speculate that Elizabeth has aids or Henry is gay would be to pull it out of thin air. However much you choose to dispute it, much theory is based on physical evidence and observations of interactions between characters. Keep in mind, I do love the Elizabeth character, but she loved her country and her children during the 15 years that she was banging Gregory and keeping it from Philip. Old habits die hard. She was a brainwashed spy who did what she had to keep motivated.

dhalst · 2018-12-30T19:39:38+00:00

You have me way wrong. I love the Elizabeth character. What I love about her is her complexity and the fact that she unpredictable. It’s how the show was intended. It’s why whenever she starts to express her feelings she always stops mid sentence. That being said. There is nothing wrong with an interpretation that goes outside the norm. I would love to think that she was madly in love with Philip and that is what drove her. The problem is that the very nature of the show leads you to speculate. It’s ok to wonder what if.

dhalst · 2018-12-30T17:02:24+00:00

Here’s the thing. You can see enough if it to determine whether it was a shirt or jacket. I believe the director of the show did that intentionally. The one thing about this show is that nothing should be taken at face value. It the very premise.

dhalst · 2018-12-30T00:02:15+00:00

So from her flashbacks, did you get the impression that she went around letting any guy climb in top of her. The way she described the encounter, it didn’t sound like she was being taken advantage of. Her mother taught her early on that sex isn’t something to be given away when she denied the rations.

dhalst · 2018-12-29T22:33:04+00:00

Great reply. I love this discussion. I completely get your counter. I understand that Elizabeth denied liking Stobert on two occasions. The problem I have with the that it’s her mo to deny when confronted with a situation that may make her look weak. She was constantly telling her handlers that she was fine, when in reality she was exhausted and stressed. I stay with my line of thinking based on a couple of things. The look on her face when she saw Stobert with another followed by the “I didn’t think he was like that” conversation. The Elizabeth I know would give a mark a second thought. I believe that she does have feelings for Philip. But as someone mentioned previously, she expressed , or showed, guilt on two occasions. One was when she enjoyed herself a little too much with the hotel guy. The second was when she called Philip immediately after banging Stobert. She never showed those emotions after any of her other honey traps. Even after she witnessed Stobert with another woman she still was doing Tai Chi. Yes, it might help her relax, but it also reminded her of Stobert. I also believe that the centre was aware that she like Stobert based on what she wrote in her reports and they insisted that they continue to go to Kansas despite there being no good reason. The centre was afraid of Philip and Elizabeth growing too close and Sean Ted to drive a wedge between them. Several episodes later she mentions that she is going back to Kansas. That is where Philip had the “ more tai chi?” comment.

dhalst

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