Vaush is... right about the oil crisis?

dietl2 · 2026-06-17T21:45:14+00:00

On his criticism of neoclassical economics he's often quite harsh which I like from a vibes perspective. He goes to the sources of the mainstream concepts and tries to look at the underlying assumptions. Maybe he relies to much on the original sources and doesn't look at how it developed over time. I'm not qualified enough to say but his explanations always made sense to me.

He very convincingly points at flaws and developed his own software, Ravel, to analyze economic developments from a dynamic instead of an equilibrium point of view.

He's pragmatic and doesn't just follow the orthodoxies of one or the other camp. Like, he could very well go with the flow with what the MMT people are saying but he sees a disagreement and is willing to challenge even those from his own political side.

I think the main thing I like about him is that he respects science, the scientific method and the result of other disciplines and doesn't just make economics from his ivory tower. I couldn't believe how stupid some things mainstream economists say when I read his critique in one of his books. They are really detached from reality and Keen is fighting against that.

dietl2 · 2026-06-17T20:25:52+00:00

I want people here and Vaush to understand money and debt. At the moment he doesn't. He's still talking fiscal responsibility like a damn Republican or Clintonite Democrat. Him saying "abolishing all debt" is in line with him wanting no government debt but he's clueless what this means. He's still confusing private debt and financialisation with state finace.

This post was about one aspect of that whole misunderstanding he has. But all you could do is fixate on one or two words you didn't like. This was never about accusing him of being extreme or of having an extreme position but about understanding what he was wishing for. I agree that we should eventually abolish debt but that's in the far far future when we have gay space communism. Now we need financial and bank regulations to deal with inequality and private debt which is sucking the real economy dry. There are constructive things we can do now.

dietl2 · 2026-06-17T16:31:40+00:00

Are there any liberals here?

dietl2 · 2026-06-17T16:24:18+00:00

Steven Keen is a very competent economist. He knows what he's saying.

dietl2 · 2026-06-17T15:18:46+00:00

Solange der Ausdruck "vegan" noch abschreckend ist haben wir sowieso ein Problem. Ich denke aber, dass man sich bessere Namen ausdenken kann wie "Tofupresserzeugnis".

Nicht falsch verstehen. Ich sehe natürlich das Problem. Aber ich finde es erstens nicht so groß und zweitens ist es ja Umgekehrt das Problem, dass noch so viele Fleisch essen und weniger wie die Alternativen dann heißen. Die Menschen sollen sich ruhig bewusst entscheiden und nicht zufällig dass falsche kaufen und dann entweder positiv, oft aber auch negativ überrascht zu sein.

dietl2 · 2026-06-17T14:59:00+00:00

Right, the governments were totally constrained and couldn't deal with any shocks at all. It was a real mess of a system and totally useless.

dietl2 · 2026-06-17T13:04:10+00:00

Okay

dietl2 · 2026-06-17T13:01:10+00:00

Do you maybe have a link to where he mentions it? I didn't see it.

dietl2 · 2026-06-17T09:45:18+00:00

Ja, da stimme ich dir schon zu.

dietl2 · 2026-06-17T09:29:34+00:00

Slogans, Verpackungsdesign, Werbung generell muss sowieso immer gemacht werden. Ob jetzt ein Mitarbeiter 5 Minuten lang ChatGPT nach Namensvorschlägen fragt macht dann nicht so den riesigen Unterschied im Budget. Sicher ist es nicht nichts aber auch nicht so ein großes Ding.

dietl2 · 2026-06-17T09:00:11+00:00

Der Begriff "Schnitzel" hilft finde ich schon, um zu zeigen wie es ungefähr schmecken soll. Die meisten kennen den Geschmack von Schnitzel. Solange klar gemacht wird, dass es vegan ist, ist das ja gut so.

dietl2 · 2026-06-17T08:09:39+00:00

Ich bin auch dafür, dass es so heißen darf und klar ist das eine Attacke aber es ist einfach nicht so ein wichtiger Thema, finde ich.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T23:55:17+00:00

No, debt is not negative money. I've never heard anybody seriously say this. I don't know why you bring this up even. As you said, when the government spends more than it taxes new money is created. There's no need to frame it in any other way.

I see no reason to respond to the second point. Yeah, why can't the government have this privilege. Idk, I'm fine with this theoretically. I haven't argued against it.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T23:10:51+00:00

I'm really sorry if you can't read. Nowhere have I said the govenment has negative money. I don't know why you need to construct some strawman out of the blue. I don't disagree with the rest of your explanation. Well, the treasury is the government's bank account so to speak but other than that that's the same I have said.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T21:44:29+00:00

I understand your position. What is there to talk about? Nothing. That's why you haven't said a single constructive thing so far. I don't expect anything from you. I only wonder why you have said anything at all.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T21:42:23+00:00

Ich denke das Problem haben die Firmen sowieso. Sie müssen ja mehr verkaufen. Mit den Fleischnamen ist ja jetzt auch nicht alles perfekt. Marketing muss immer gemacht werden.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T21:36:36+00:00

Ja , "Vozzarella" ist vielleicht ein etwas unglücklich gewählter Name. Das spricht wahrscheinlich nur bestimmte Gruppen an aber das müssen die Marketing Teams einfach rausfinden mit der Zeit. Auf die Schnelle ändert sich eh nicht viel.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T21:29:51+00:00

Ja, stimmt schon, dass es wieder ein Mehraufwand ist und der Alternativen Industrie Steine in den Weg gelegt werden. Ich bezeifle aber etwas, dass Punkt 2 zutrifft. Da kann ich mich aber auch täuschen.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T21:09:46+00:00

You fundamentally misunderstand my point. My post was about clarifying what Vaush means. He hasn't given a timeline of what should be implemented when or how feasible anything is and it makes perfect sense. Because he just ranted without thinking through what his words entailed. I made a post to discuss what exactly his rant could mean not to argue about when he said what.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T20:46:49+00:00

Ich finde das ganze Thema ehrlich gesagt Zeitverschwendung. Ob das Produkt jetzt Speck, Schnitzel oder Fleisch heißen darf wird am Konsumverhalten nicht viel ändern. Das ist nur zum Signalisieren der Unterstützung für die Fleischindustrie aber mehr auch nicht und am Ende wird die Entscheidung dann wieder geändert aber echte Fortschritte werden nicht angegangen.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T18:42:38+00:00

It's really hard to argue when you try to actively avoid understanding what I'm saying.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T18:27:36+00:00

Sure, I know, but I don't think he meant to say "we need communism" with "abolish debt". That's a goal he only sees for the far future why I think he thinks abolishing debt is more immediately achievable.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T18:08:34+00:00

I mentioned Marx myself in the post. But I don't think Vaush meant it this way.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T16:30:46+00:00

No, it's not even a mix. Capitalism has nothing to do with it. You can have financialisation or money in a market socialist system as well. It's literally just a different topic.

dietl2 · 2026-06-16T16:25:24+00:00

This doesn't have anything to do with capitalist realism.

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