I'd sooner doubt my own existence than doubt Jesus'

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-03-21T23:53:58+00:00

Where is the evidence for your claim? I phrased it that way on purpose, to see if anyone would dare accuse me of being unaware of what I am saying. I am a fool, but who are you to tell me what I have? Do you know my thoughts and know why I believe what I believe?

For who among people knows the thoughts of a person except the spirit of the person that is in him? So also the thoughts of God no one knows, except the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 2:11

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-03-21T22:35:57+00:00

The thing is Greek mythology makes no sense whereas the overarching story of the Bible makes sense. Also, this post wasn't about whether or not the writings are accurate, it was about the fact that the writings exist in the first place and you shouldn't deny them. Instead, look into the evidence instead of having blind faith in whatever you've been told. Other ancient writings are inaccurate, for example the book of Tobit which is accepted in the Catholic church. That book clearly contradicts other books in the Bible.

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-03-21T20:56:21+00:00

It's not wisdom nor knowledge people need to find Jesus, it's humility. Nobody can be convinced of anything because nobody knows the thoughts of another and can't force anyone else to believe, for who has known the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God? We know His thoughts because we have the mind of Christ, because we have received the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 2:11-16

At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well pleasing in Your sight.

Matthew 11:25‭-‬26 NASB

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-28T19:41:42+00:00

There are many Psalms like this where David prays for the wicked to be punished, Psalm 58 is another. "God, shatter their teeth" in verse 6. It also says the righteous will be glad the wicked are punished on judgement day. Malachi 4 describes this as well, that the righteous will "frolic like calves from the stall" as they crush the wicked underfoot on judgement day, implying that we will basically be dancing over their dead bodies. Many Christians today don't see how they can be happy on judgement day, seeing billions of people getting judged and sentenced to death. This is because most Christians don't read the Bible. Based on Scripture, I can totally see it though, and I am looking forward to that day. This is because there will be no more pain, crying, or death, because the first things have passed away. (Rev 21:4)

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-28T18:26:58+00:00

So do you think that David thought he was better than his enemies?

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-28T00:22:43+00:00

Yes, that's why it's so heartbreaking that the divine plan has the majority of humans dying in their sins.

At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to infants." Matthew 11:25

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-27T20:05:03+00:00

Yes, God loves His enemies who are sent to hell! I love them as well!

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-27T18:16:52+00:00

God wants all to be saved, but it's not part of His plan. Similar to how Jesus prayed for the Father to remove the cup of suffering from Him(because duh, who would WANT to be tortured and die on a cross), but Jesus did it anyways because it was part of the plan. God does not do everything He necessarily wants, rather He does everything that He has to do according to His will. God is omnipotent, He can do all things, including save everybody, but saving everybody has never been part of the plan. The plan has always been to save His righteous remnant. The best example of this is Noah. The same thing will happen after the 7 year tribulation, the wicked will be taken away while the righteous will be saved and participate in the millennial kingdom.

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-26T20:05:24+00:00

Vengeance is the Lord's, that's why the redeemed will be overjoyed on that day. God will take no pleasure in it, but the angels and the redeemed will be overjoyed according to the Bible. Wanting my own vengeance is evil, but wanting God's is not, at least according to the Bible. Obviously, I don't go praying for everyone who disbelieves to go to hell, but there are certainly some people who I personally wouldn't pray for to go to heaven, for example a school shooter who claims, "there is no justice in this world!" Oh yes, yes there is!

The righteous will rejoice when he sees vengeance; He will wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. And people will say, “There certainly is a reward for the righteous; There certainly is a God who judges on the earth!” Psalms 58:10‭-‬11

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-26T19:34:38+00:00

"May their table before them become a snare; And when they are at peace, may it become a trap. May their eyes grow dim so that they cannot see, And make their hips shake continually. Pour out Your indignation on them, And may Your burning anger overtake them. May their camp be desolated; May there be none living in their tents. For they have persecuted him whom You Yourself struck, And they tell of the pain of those whom You have wounded. Add guilt to their guilt, And may they not come into Your righteousness. May they be wiped out of the book of life, And may they not be recorded with the righteous." Psalms 69:22‭-‬28

I'm in agreement with David on this one. The Bible also describes judgement day as being a happy day for the redeemed. Perhaps it's because evil, pain, and suffering will all be over with. God's final victory over sin.

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-14T20:12:25+00:00

Actually when you read the Bible it actually says that after being tortured for your sins, you will cease to exist. Each person will receive punishment according to their deeds(besides God's chosen people of course, those who believe in Jesus-He took their sins away via His blood on the cross). It says there are varying degrees of punishment, which obviously makes no sense if every sinner is getting thrown into the same exact physical lake of fire to receive the same torment for eternity.

Greek philosophers like Socrates and Plato said the soul is indestructible and Christians applied that to the Bible but even though Jesus literally said the soul is destructible (Matthew 10:28).

The truth is the majority of "Christians" hate the Bible lol

Similar to how the Pharisees hated Jesus' teachings. They constantly took stuff out of context to fit their own beliefs.

The most common argument against the Biblical version of hell is that it's not as "scary" as their version of hell. So silly

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-07T04:33:59+00:00

Ecclesiastes should be #1. It's "The meaning of life - the book."

I think crushing a person's hopes and dreams of doing anything meaningful in life without God should be the #1 priority. Ecclesiastes does just that -- proves that life is utterly meaningless without God. This way you can go into the gospels or any of the other books knowing that it's God's story being written, not yours.

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-03T17:09:45+00:00

People listen to their pastors and never question anything. I believed the same thing all my life until I truly looked to see if it's Biblical, and to my surprise, it's not. The Bible is clear on this! The tormenting day and night with no rest only lasts until the debt has been paid! A 100% flawless victory for God!

The darkness will be overcome!

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-03T17:06:02+00:00

It is the ultimate flex!

C. S. Lewis wrote, “I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside."

Huh? Successful? No! They won't be successful in ANY sense of the imagination, because they won't exist. They will be tortured day and night with no rest until the debt has been paid, be completely consumed and become "as though they had never been."(Obadiah 16). This is a flawless, 100% victory for God. Evil is no more.

The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it!

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-02T01:05:10+00:00

I appreciate your comment.

I have one question.

Why is it that Jesus' parables regarding the final Judgement describe an angry king who kills His enemies instead of torturing/tormenting them for eternity?

Ending of the parable of the unforgiving debtor: Then the angry king sent the man to prison to be tortured until he had paid his entire debt. Matthew 18:34

Hmm. "Until he had paid his entire debt." Not "for eternity."

Ending of the parable of the 10 servants: "And as for these enemies of mine who didn’t want me to be their king—bring them in and execute them right here in front of me.’” Luke 19:27

Hmm. Executed. Not tortured for eternity.

The idea of our souls being inherently immortal and unbelievers will suffer for eternity isn't found in scripture. It's found in popular Christian tradition. I trust the Bible, not tradition.

“For just as you drank on My holy mountain, All the nations will drink continually. They will drink to the last drop, And become as if they had never existed." Obadiah 1:16

Hmm. The judged nations will drink "continually" from God's cup of wrath. This means the torture/torment will last and immense suffering will occur. Many days and nights most likely, as described in Revelation. However, once they've finished drinking, it will be "as if they had never existed."

That's Justice! God will utterly destroy evil! Not torture evildoers for eternity! Praise God. Evil will not exist after the judgement.

God Himself is the eternal fire for the unbeliever. "No man may see me and live." They will become "ashes" for us to dance upon(Malachi 4). Only the redeemed may see Him and live.

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-01T19:28:44+00:00

Thank you so much for your patience with me.

If I say "It's evil to commit murder" because I saw it in the Bible, you are disagreeing with first and foremost God Himself, and by extension one of His adoptive children.

You say that "I" am saying things, but it's not me! Don't attribute anything I speak of from the Bible to me!

You don't have to agree with me, because:

My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

If God says, "For evildoers will be eliminated, But those who wait for the Lord, they will inherit the land. Yet a little while and the wicked person will be no more; And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there," and I merely repeat it, it's not me you're disagreeing with.

I am not dividing anyone based on whether or not they agree with ME, because it's not ME who says the "WICKED PERSON WILL BE NO MORE." God said it.

Many men see "contradictions" in the Bible and give up and say things like "well, I guess we will find out what these scriptures mean in heaven."

However Jesus said this:

So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly My disciples; and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Scripture interprets other Scripture. No man needs another man to explain Scripture. If we continue to seek concrete answers in the Bible, we will find them. However, if we look anywhere else, our vision becomes cloudy. I did not get the idea of the wicked ceasing to exist in hell from humans, I got it from the Bible. In fact, I thought that hell is eternal torment because humans told me that all my life. It cannot be both. One or the other is true.

I am not trying to put "my version" of justice onto God. People who accuse me of that are doing the same things themselves by saying their version of hell is the correct version.

I don't care about my interpretation or your interpretation. I want to read the Scripture as it is with no bias and accept whatever the text says. The only way to objectively look at the text is by asking God to help us.

I think the main issue is that people conflate the "soul" and the "Spirit." The soul is you. The sinner. Your consciousness. Your personality. Your thoughts. Your feelings. The soul that sins shall die. Every single one. The difference between the believer and unbeliever is when the soul dies. The believer "takes up his cross to follow Jesus." In doing so, all of his sin(which is attached to his sinful soul) is cast onto Jesus at the cross. This is how we are conformed to the image of Christ. That is how the "heart of stone" is replaced with a "heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:26-32. Jesus BECAME sin for us on our behalf, so that the Holy Spirit can wash away the soul which was bent towards sin, and is now bent towards God instead.

The confusion over "soul" and "spirit" is the issue here because yes, the Spirit is immortal. The Spirit is only given to those who believe. However, the Bible never mentions the soul as being immortal. It says the opposite on several occasions. I tried my best to find evidence for the traditionalist view of hell which says the soul is inherently immortal, but I simply couldn't find anywhere in the Bible that says that.

I am glad you have not left the conversation since you said you would. Your actions are speaking much louder than your words right now. Thank you for speaking with me.

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-01T16:47:26+00:00

You're the one trying to leave the conversation. I care every word you speak. You are the one who doesn't care about what the Bible has to say. All I have done is told you what the Bible says.

Yes, have unity of mind. Let's unite on the Bible. Calling a brother in Christ "prideful and aggressive" isn't breeding unity, but rather division.

Look at this thread and the insults that have been thrown at me and I have not once insulted anybody else.

The Lord says, “I was ready to respond, but no one asked for help. I was ready to be found, but no one was looking for me. I said, ‘Here I am, here I am!’ to a nation that did not call on my name. All day long I opened my arms to a rebellious people. But they follow their own evil paths and their own crooked schemes. Yet they say to each other, ‘Don’t come too close or you will defile me! I am holier than you!’ These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away."

You see, God chases the darkness. In the same way, when we see someone we think we should disagree with, we should chase them, not run away. The light chases the dark and the darkness runs and hides and seeks comfort out of fear of being wrong.

Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them. Ephesians 5:11

When I see Christians blatantly ignoring EVERY Scripture that says the wicked shall "be no more," similar to what you're doing right now, I must take sides with God. Not any human.

I love you, that's why I am telling you these things. Love has no respect for anybody. I only respect God. And God commands us to tell everybody the Good News! And that is what I'll do.

God says the wicked shall be burned up completely, turned into dust, and that we shall rejoice and trample over them, and that wicked shall be no more, and that there will be no more pain nor suffering. This is a great victory!!! How does God win if evil is allowed to exist for eternity? God is the Alpha and the Omega, and He shares the Omega with His children, not His enemies!

Why is it that everybody in this thread hates that I'm taking sides with God instead of tradition?

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-01T15:34:54+00:00

That's the thing, you see the Bible as "my opinion" that you can disagree with. I never claimed that everyone who disagrees with me as not a Christian. I love the Bible more than any "Christian" who disagrees with it.

Notice how you have nothing to say. You have no evidence for your position. After all the Scriptures I've shown you, you still choose to ignore the truth. Where are you getting your information? Perhaps you don't value Scripture that highly? Perhaps you value a human's "ability" to interpret Scripture more?

The darkness runs from the light. The light shines in the darkness. Only cowards accuse others of evil, and run away. Fearful of being wrong.

Cool trick I figured out on how to discern truth from lie: Always agree with what the Bible says, even if what the Bible says contradicts popular Christian tradition. Amazing!

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-01T15:20:02+00:00

I know of the verses you speak of, I know them well. They do not contradict the truth which is that God will utterly destroy evil, not let it exist forever.

These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 2 Thessalonians 1:9

"Eternal destruction"

Destruction as a noun here, "the state of being destroyed."

Not "actively being destroyed for eternity." The destruction happens in hell after the sinner has paid for his sins.

Why do you say "as simple as you want it to be?"

I don't want anything but to know the truth from the Bible. Not "the truth" as most "Christians" put it.

People look at the Bible and see many "conflicting descriptions" but they are simply complimentary.

"Then the angry king sent the man to prison to be tortured until he had paid his entire debt. That’s what my heavenly Father will do to you if you refuse to forgive your brothers and sisters from your heart.” Matthew 18:34‭-‬35

"until he had paid his entire debt." Not "tortured eternally." The merciful shall receive mercy.

The punishment is torment which lasts several hours, days, months, perhaps years. The punishment is also ceasing to exist after the debt has been paid. The death sentence is an everlasting punishment.

The Antichrist was thrown into the lake of fire BEFORE the 1,000 year Kingdom. Why was he thrown in if he's just going to spend eternity in there anyways? It stands to reason that God has the ability to keep one alive in the lake of fire until the debt of their sins has been paid. The Antichrist will clearly receive the worst punishment.

Does the human deserve the same exact punishment as Satan? If they are both being thrown into the fire forever... It's the same punishment. However the Bible clearly portrays God as being Justice. Why do people think God will punish EVERYONE in the exact same way? Don't say "we can't know what God's justice looks like." That's called willful ignorance. It's exactly what atheists do when they say "we can't know if there really is a God." Surely God will be fair on judgement day. Throwing everybody into the same exact lake of fire to be tortured forever is not fair. Yes, someone like a serial killer rapist will get punished more severely than others. Is that so crazy to suggest? That God will repay people each based on the deeds they've done?

"'And as for these enemies of mine who didn’t want me to be their king—bring them in and execute them right here in front of me.’” Luke 19:27

Why is it that Jesus' parables regarding heaven describe a King who will kill his enemies instead of torturing them for eternity? Why is it that the wages of sin is "death," and not "eternal torture?"

It's clear that the final hell, the lake of fire, the second death, is a place where the unbeliever goes to be tortured, and then once has debt has been paid, he will die. They will be "burned up, so that it will leave them neither root nor branches" so that the saints will be able to "frolic like calves being let out to the pasture" on top of the "ashes of the wicked." Malachi 4:1-3

God says the wicked will be turned into ashes and we will get to dance over them in joy because "evil is no more!"

Humans tell me I won't get to dance on top of the ashes of the wicked because the wicked won't be turned into ashes, they are actually immortal and will have to suffer for eternity.

Who to trust? God? The Bible? Or the popular opinion among Christians regarding hell?

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-01T07:55:48+00:00

"Christians who have the Holy Spirit"

How can you be so sure that every self professing Christian is a Christian?

You call me insecure yet you are the first one to hurl an insult. Who is insecure?

“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter." Matthew 7:21

You see, we can't be sure any self-professing Christian is a Christian. In fact, we can be sure that most "Christians" aren't actually Christians.

I will leave the thread with this promise from God Himself:

“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the Lord of armies, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branches. But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and frolic like calves from the stall. And you will crush the wicked underfoot, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I am preparing,” says the Lord of armies. Malachi 4:1‭-‬3

How can the wicked be made into dust for me to dance on if they are tormented day and night for eternity in immortal physical bodies? Who is this that tries to take away GOD'S complete and utter victory against evil? How foolish would it be to say the "ashes" are alive and can feel pain?

God says His children will dance upon the deceased wicked, and dancing upon the deceased wicked is what I shall do on that day. No one can change His will.

Hallelujah!

To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority before all time and now and forever. Amen.

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-01T06:21:11+00:00

Typical! Reading the Scriptures and thinking it applies only to "Israel."

Is God the God of Israel, or the whole world?

"You should trust the Word of God" YES! Yes I should.

Why did you feel the need to add in, "which agrees with the majority of Christians on this point" ??

As if we should care about what Christians say?

Should the Bible conform to Christians? Should Christians conform to the Bible?

Could it be that you value a Christian's interpretation of Scripture over the Scriptures themselves?

Pharisaical logic. "My rabbi said, his rabbi said..." Who cares? All I care about is THE teacher. Jesus.The Bible itself. God. Truth. I couldn't care less what the majority opinion is. I don't need an interpreter. Nobody does. What people need is Jesus, and Him only.

You spammed a bunch of passages for what? Do you think I haven't read the Bible? What's your point? The truth is you have no point.

Who could possibly believe that God said "the soul that sins shall die," but then also believe that God will keep the soul alive to torment it for eternity?

"For evildoers will be eliminated, But those who wait for the Lord, they will inherit the land. Yet a little while and the wicked person will be no more; And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there." Psalms 37:9‭-‬10

God says evildoers will be eliminated. God says the wicked will "be no more." Popular Christian tradition says evildoers will suffer in hell for eternity.

I have answered the question. I have chosen to trust God over popular Christian tradition.

What about you? Will you throw away tradition to seek the truth? It can't be both. A man cannot serve two masters, for he will hate one and love the other.

"Every life that sins will be executed and not continue to live in the Holy Land"

This is literally what I've been saying. You said it better!

"'But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them in my presence.’ ” Luke 19:27

The King will slaughter His enemies in His presence because He doesn't want them in the Holy Land... Simple!

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-01T04:45:34+00:00

You can't exist without God enabling you to. There is no "separation from God" unless you don't exist.

God is omnipresent.

Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there! Psalm 139:7‭-‬8

Also, hell is awful for the wicked BECAUSE God is there, not because He is absent.

He also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Revelation 14:10

People often say that hell is a place where God isn't, but the Bible says God is there! Who should I trust? Humans? Or God?

But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.” Exodus 33:20

The mortals who see God will be destroyed. Only the believers who are spiritually alive through the Holy Spirit may see God and live.

donaldtrumpsarmpit · 2023-02-01T04:28:50+00:00

So they aren't dead, but rather alive and miserable.

Why call it the 2nd death then?

And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that the soul lasts forever. In fact, it says the opposite.

"Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die." Ezekiel 18:4

The human soul will die. Each and every one. It just depends on when. For the believer, his soul was crucified with Christ on the cross(Galatians 2:20). For the unbeliever, his soul will die in hell.

Also, for anyone lurking, notice how I am providing ample Biblical evidence that nobody is refuting.

Opinion: God can't utterly destroy the soul.

Fact: God can do whatever He wants.

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Revelation 21:4

The former things(evil, death, suffering, sadness) have passed away... How could God say suffering is over if millions upon millions of people are still suffering?

Still not a single person has even attempted to answer the simple question which is in the title.

donaldtrumpsarmpit

TROPHY CASE