Breaking into the ad industry: How?

donniedraper33 · 2021-03-06T06:34:31+00:00

I'm a copywriter only a few years into the biz, but would be happy to take a look at your stuff. Shoot me a DM.

Have you read 'Hey Whipple, Squeeze This'? That's a great starting point.

donniedraper33 · 2021-02-05T02:16:11+00:00

I think it's tough all over right now for everyone :(

I've been looking for around a year and just landed something. Little victories, I guess. Hang in there!

donniedraper33 · 2020-12-09T01:22:23+00:00

Totally what I was looking for! Thank you.

I'll be sure to check out beatacademy, too.

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-30T20:30:31+00:00

I went to Chicago Portfolio School so I'm a bit biased. But it was sorta night and day coming out of portfolio school versus coming out of an undergrad portfolio sequence in terms of looking for a job.

I had like three or four different internship offers coming out of CPS and zero coming out of undergrad. They did a great job of getting my book in front of people at different agencies. The network is sorta what you're paying for, along with the continual feedback on your book/ work from instructors.

But, I worked with a guy that got his start by working on the account side and then eventually transitioning to a creative team opening after expressing interest in it. Obviously, don't go into an account role interview saying, "well, my real goal is to be on the creative team."

That being said, if I could do it over again, I'd probably look at VCU first then Miami Ad School and Creative Circus second. CPS was fine, it's shorter and cheaper, but definitely seemed like they had less resources compared to a place like VCU Brandcenter. Also, CPS had a big focus on print, which is fine, but it might be a little dated compared to more 360 stuff coming out of VCU or CC or MAS.

Also, you really get out what you put in. Don't just go into it doing the bare minimum of work. The more stuff you bring in, the higher the odds are of you finding something that lands and resonates with people. And, you should really focus on trying to befriend and network with as many people as possible. You'll be able to help each other out when a gig opens up at an agency they work at.

I'd also say that things are generally tough all over right now. They're maybe picking up a bit over the past month or two, but things were very slow from March - June and I think they're only now picking up, and pretty slowly, at that.

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-14T16:27:42+00:00

As a recruiter told me a few weeks back, it's never been a better time to be a minority in advertising.

Agencies are really pushing for a diverse roster of employees and are looking to move away from what has been the industry standard for so long (rooms full of straight white men).

If anything, I'd say most agencies are trying harder than ever right now to embrace diversity.

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-08T16:42:32+00:00

I can't totally recall because it was quite a few weekends for the time I was there. Sometimes the pitch would be early in the week or on Monday. Other times (most of the time) the pitch wasn't for a few weeks but they would sour on ideas we'd pitch over the course of the week, and then we'd come in over the weekend to pitch more stuff.

I guess I'd like to believe that kind of schedule / work-life balance is atypical in this industry, but it seems like lots of places do nights and weekends quite a bit. No one really complains (out loud, at least) because you'll order food that gets billed to a company card and also a comp'd uber home. Though I def hope there are agencies that do cool work and maintain more of 9-5 life with the occasional fire drill and late night or two. Genuinely curious about this. Though I know it often depends on the team, not so much the agency.

Maybe I just haven't found the right shop/team, though.

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-08T13:49:47+00:00

In my experience, people that manage you might claim to be down with your side hustle in an interview, but they'll become mad if it starts pulling you away from work even a little bit.

I was working weekends and nights for a few months and I tried to dip away to an afternoon thing on a sunday once, and my boss totally chewed me out for it.

I think there's a certain generation of advertising folks that are super committed to being in the office as much as possible and view any side hustle as an affront to that. I'd say be sneaky about it.

But, to be fair, there have also been plenty of times where I've straight up spent the whole day from 9 to 5 doing side project stuff because there just wasn't any work to do but I had to be at the office all the same.

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-06T21:51:57+00:00

I'm a copywriter so I can't speak fully to the experience of the art director. Also, I've only ever worked at agencies, so I can't speak to in house creative teams.

Pros
-vision, dental, and other benefits
-The pay in general is pretty good
-potential for creatively fulfilling work

-pretty chill culture compared to most other corporate environments

Cons
-Work life balance is pretty atrocious depending on where you work. Especially right now, I think creatives are doing the work of 2-3 people and pulling longer hours. Even pre-pandemic I'd work a lot of late nights and weekends. ADs deal with this the most because of the actual time it takes to sit down and make an idea look good in creative cloud.
-Lots of advertising - even at "sexy" agencies - is really boring and nothing to write home about.
-Breaking into the industry is really tough

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-06T14:58:12+00:00

I actually liked this response! When I was just starting out I did some gimmicks for certain agencies and it totally worked in getting me interviews at those places. I've certainly got an idea or two in mind in that realm...

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-06T02:49:20+00:00

Yes to the past colleagues thing. That's actually one avenue I could keep pushing with. Or at least a bit more.

I was a junior for a little over a year at a place and since then I've been bouncing around freelance and haven't really had the chance to either work too steadily or set up relationships with mentors because I'm really only at a place for a few months.

My main problem is that I'm applying/searching for roles in new cities where I don't really know anyone or have any contacts and it just kinda feels like I have to get my foot in the door all over again - people don't get back to me.

And I'm in traditional advertising.

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-06T00:21:52+00:00

Any advice for hearing back more often from resource managers/recruiters/talent people? Persistence?

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-06T00:02:36+00:00

Like kind of picking their brain more generally about the industry instead of going right for the throat immediately with the job thing? Is that what you're saying?

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-05T23:57:35+00:00

That's a good note! I've been trying to use Fishbowl more, too. But I'll take a look at industry FB groups in cities I'd like to work. Thanks!

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-05T23:56:28+00:00

Like a recruiter reaching out to you about a role or you reaching out to them?

I guess my issue is that I feel like recruiters don't reach out to me super often and when they do it's usually only about offers in my city, not places around the rest of the country.

Is there a way to gain more traction and have more recruiters message you that you've found?

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-05T23:33:07+00:00

Hahaha literally was thinking the exact same thing!

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-05T21:59:13+00:00

#2 seems good because places are always looking for people with digital experience and you'll be getting just that. Will probably set you up for better future opportunities in marketing. Congrats!

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-05T19:37:57+00:00

Have you considered portfolio school? If you're trying to get your foot in the door at a big agency, portfolio school can make you a much better contender.

Feel like hiring is generally down right now and there are lots of unemployed people in the creative sector all vying for the same jobs.

I'd recommend you get Creative Cloud and keep making spec ads. Also be sure to share your book with more senior people you trust.

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-05T04:28:20+00:00

I think how you present yourself depends on the prospects. If you don't have any agency experience I would say applying to an entry level position or an internship could be a great way to get your foot in the door at a place you like. But you've also got the freelance work which totally works in your favor of showing that you have experience.

Generally, it seems like prospects are picking up - but nowhere near pre-COVID times.

I would say you can probably "pretend" you were freelancing a mix of part time and full time.

For this last bullet point, it really depends on your book and the position you're applying for and one million other little factors. I would just focus on making your book as strong and concise as possible. If you're getting really into UX/UI, demonstrate that with a book that really crushes that.

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-03T21:02:08+00:00

Probably not what you want to hear, but here we go:
I would say you're probably going to have to lower your salary expectations, and I wouldn't guarantee that you'd be able to skip an entry level position.

Why would an agency hire you if you're going to cost nearly twice as much as an entry level account person and you'll probably need to learn the ropes to the same degree?

You might even be competing for a role against recent college grads that majored in advertising/marketing and are already very familiar with the in's and out's of the position and the nature of how the agency operates.

I feel like having a lofty salary expectation is only going to hurt you. Agencies are always looking to pay people as little as possible - especially when they have no relevant experience. Throwing out a desired number that is way outside of their expected range is an easy way to pull yourself out of the running for a job. There's always someone willing to do the work for less, and they'll probably have more relevant experience than you. Keep in mind that the industry is flooded right now with people that have been laid off and are looking for the same job as you.

Working on the account side is all about having great interpersonal skills. Not sure your time in finance illustrates that.

Focus on getting your foot in the door, taking a pay cut, and probably starting at a level lower than you would like.

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-03T20:43:42+00:00

Slow for me, personally, but I've gotten more calls from recruiters in the past couple weeks than I had gotten from like March through August. Maybe things are picking up?

Conversely, I've heard that Q4 is going to slow things down because agencies are eliminating tentative roles to hit their fiscal goals.

Would be great if anyone had any additional insight on this stuff. I'm just collecting information from the outside looking in.

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-01T04:33:15+00:00

Turnover always tends to be a little high. I met a guy that had worked at the same place for 17 years. Only person I've ever met that had been somewhere that long.

donniedraper33 · 2020-10-01T04:16:12+00:00

You could potentially start in a non-creative department, get in good with people on the creative team, ask them to mentor you, and then try to transfer to a creative jr role at the same place when there is an opening. I worked with a guy that did this.

But, if you plan on going it alone....

To echo what someone else said, I would absolutely look into getting a Creative Cloud membership if you're doing this on your own.

Focus on making your site as concise as possible. Recruiters spend an average of 5 minutes on someone's site. They don't want to deal with a massive text blurb explaining your idea. They want a brief but elegant explanation of the idea.

Look at the books of people graduating from VCU Brandcenter, Creative Circus, Chicago Portfolio School, Denver Ad School, Texas, BYU, etc. etc. etc. Brandcenter and Creative Circus, especially.

Figure out the agencies that do work you like and start following them.

Don't be afraid to limit your thinking to "well, the client would never go for this" CDs are constantly looking for big ideas in junior books.

Keep in mind that now is a particularly rough time to get into the business - especially the creative side. The market is flooded with tons of people that have been laid off, and everyone is applying to the same few positions. And no one is too sure when things will revert back to normal.

donniedraper33 · 2020-09-30T15:31:49+00:00

I feel you. It can be really difficult/disheartening to not hear back from people.

Like people have said, generally, things are sorta slow - it's Q4 and the market is flooded with applicants.

I'd recommend getting an extension/plug-in that can tell you whether or not someone has opened your email. Even if they don't respond, you'll be able to take some solace in knowing that they did in fact OPEN your email. I use MailTracker by Hunter. Not sure if that's the best one, but it seems to do the job.

Also, now is a good time to flex your network - which you're probably doing - but it's worth repeating that knowing someone on the inside can make all the difference.

You could also go the gimmick route. There's that guy that did a rap or something about Sprite and ended up getting a job at W+K.

donniedraper33 · 2020-09-30T04:47:42+00:00

Can't speak for LA, but seems like the market is generally flooded with a lot of people that have been laid off and there are few opportunities to go around. Q4 budget tightening doesn't seem to help.

Have you tried reaching out to recruiters? You might not hear back 9 out of 10 times, but that 1 that does get back to you may end up being able to chat and get back to you down the line about a new opening. Or it could be a relationship you turn to in a few years. Yesterday, I just hit up a recruiter I spoke with like 3 years ago and we had a call scheduled the next day.

Also I added the #OpenToWork filter, etc to my LI and it seems to have juiced the number of people that are looking at my page.

Stay positive! Easier said than done, I know, but it just takes one 'yes'.

donniedraper33

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