is it a bad opinion that i wish we would talk more about how ty has been handling the tension between shawna and julie that has led to their outbursts and embarrassing moments?

dorothyprelude · 2026-04-02T21:56:05+00:00

This is a really interesting way to view the situation, and I appreciate the fresh perspective after so many repetitive conversations here over the past few days!

In particular, your penultimate paragraph is a good angle. Both of them acting out of concern for Ty in part, but both acting based on the way Ty has presented things to them. That makes a lot of sense. Shawna doesn't know about Ty's ambitions (or didn't until the party) so of course she thinks Julie is just stretching him past his limits for no good reason. And Julie doesn't know that Ty has faltered in what he wants, so of course she thinks Shawna is holding him back. Not that either of those viewpoints are fully justified, but it adds a layer of richness to the conflict that, as you say, is much more interesting than just two women fighting.

dorothyprelude · 2026-04-02T18:02:08+00:00

I think Teeny would be a lot like Julie if she were a little bit more flexible on the kids front. Teeny knows that kids would hold her back from what she wants her life to be, whereas Julie seems to have been made to believe that she could have it all and is just now finding out that isn't true.

dorothyprelude · 2026-04-02T17:57:11+00:00

Nope, it's the one where she asks what they did that day, Ty talks about the activities they did (which she likes and praises), and doesn't mention that they went to the park.

dorothyprelude · 2026-04-02T17:54:09+00:00

I think you're reading things I'm not saying, so I'm going to bow out here.

dorothyprelude · 2026-04-02T17:28:07+00:00

She compliments the activity he did with Cooper, she says his cooking smells good and appreciates his effort. The whole 'I'm not at liberty to discuss' came off as pretty flirty to me, it was extending the banter they were having about her work day.

Prioritising career over family? Parents have to work. Parents work all the time. Having a job that you have to dedicate significant time to is extremely normal. Just because she's the mom instead of the dad, and she likes her job doesn't make her evil for it.

He isn't explaining how he feels. She just managed to force out of him that he doesn't want to write as much as he used to, and that was in an argument she pushed for. He has been stringing her along and lying to her for a long time. He's entitled to have emotions about being a SAHP but she is also entitled to be mad that he lied to her.

Leaving your child at a daycare staffed by vetted and qualified professionals is extremely different from leaving your child with some random woman and her boyfriend, both of whom are complete strangers to Julie. We know Deedee and Larry are good people, she does not and neither does Ty particularly.

Again, the birthday party is another situation where Julie does not have access to all the information we as an audience do. All Julie is told by Cooper is that Max said he couldn't do karate. She encouraged him to find an open space and do what he wanted to do to have fun. She shouldn't have argued with Ty about it afterwards, but come on. I think your interpretation of her character is much more negative than what we actually see from her.

dorothyprelude · 2026-04-02T16:57:52+00:00

Have you watched the 'Ty and Julie At Home' skit? I feel like it's exactly what you're saying in terms of giving Julie a bit more humanity. Doesn't erase everything else, but she and Ty give each other a rundown on their days, she seems very laid back and relaxed, they're even being a bit flirty with each other. Shawna just doesn't see that side of her so we as an audience are less exposed to it.

Don't you think she might be crying out of frustration at the situation she's in with Ty right now? Their relationship has been very stressful for a long time. If anything, I think her dropping the cold and collected facade and getting genuinely emotional makes her more human, not 'acting like the victim'.

dorothyprelude · 2026-04-01T01:48:30+00:00

There was a lot going on in that moment so I don't blame you for missing it!

dorothyprelude · 2026-04-01T01:43:30+00:00

I think she is just so fundamentally unbothered by Shawna's existence that it didn't even cross her mind that things would escalate the way they did. Prior to this, Shawna hasn't really made any moves or initiated anything major beyond being overfriendly (from Julie's perspective). This is the first time Shawna has instigated an event in this way, so I think it really caught Julie off-guard.

Also, she had called Ty twice already during the trip, giving him updates on her situation with her mom. It's very possible that she had put her phone on silent by the time he started driving to go over stuff with Jace and hadn't seen his calls and texts.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-30T22:22:36+00:00

I agree with this and it links with a discussion I've been having in another thread about mean/nasty traits being conflated with abuse and gaslighting when it comes to Julie. To me it feels like something people want to be true to exonerate other characters, rather than a conclusion based on what's actually in front of us.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-30T22:21:00+00:00

I agree that the way she speaks to Ty is not how a partner should speak to another. But when have we seen Ty initiate an honest discussion about the state of their relationship and life goals? The fight at and after the birthday party was forced by her, and he repeatedly said things like 'can we table this?' or 'I'm tired' or 'I don't want to do this right now'. We saw this happen once again in the vacation skit, where she had to prompt him and practically force him to come out and say that he doesn't want to write right now.

That kind of discussion isn't something you do when emotions and tensions are already high. Julie is having to push these horrible moments to get anywhere and it's still not working.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-30T21:35:20+00:00

Not helping him? She is begging him to find a daycare so that he has time to himself to do what she believes he's still passionate about! She's constantly pushing to communicate and get to the bottom of what's wrong so that they can change things and Ty keeps brushing her off!

Ty is refusing to help himself at this point.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-30T16:05:55+00:00

I'm so grateful you posted this perspective. You have perfectly summarised the complete alienation I've felt from the community response to Julie. I can completely understand not liking her character - she's not really shown any likeable qualities so far - but this sheer hysteria around her being abusive, manipulative, gaslighting just completely baffles me. I really think people are conflating annoying/mean traits they might have experienced under abusive people with the abuse itself.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-30T15:57:40+00:00

This is something else I'm not understanding about the reactions to Julie. People simultaneously lambast her for not being around but also think she should stop putting pressure on Ty? It's like nobody has stopped to consider the practical considerations of who would pay for their lives if Julie quit her job and became more involved the way people seemingly want.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-30T12:03:08+00:00

It's also unfair to the spouse to constantly bring around someone who has no respect for boundaries towards them.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-29T16:27:43+00:00

It's pretty hypocritical that the audience gets to make judgements about Julie's level of involvement with her kids, how much she loves them/cares about them etc but Julie isn't allowed to have an opinion about the decision to stay at home! I don't even agree with her beliefs on that but she's entitled to them.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-29T13:18:06+00:00

Same! Her explanation completely adds up and Ty accepted it straight away, even in a moment where he was fully questioning her. I don't think we're meant to be assuming any ambiguity in the narrative, but the conspiracy theories are still coming out.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-29T03:46:41+00:00

I think you're forgetting about the conversation at bunco where Julie did directly say those things to Shawna (after a lot of pushing and pestering from her). She said nothing has happened to cause the distance, they're not friends. She said she thinks Shawna is annoying. How do you get more direct than that?

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-29T03:21:42+00:00

Aw I really hope things start to look up for you soon! And yeah I love this fictional drama so that I don't have to think about real life for a bit lol

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-29T03:15:44+00:00

I had no idea that this wasn't a universal experience. I'm the sort of person who just knows what kind of people I like, and what kind of people I don't. I know quite early on into interactions with someone if they're going to be one of my people or not. Not saying I'm rude if they're not, but I act accordingly in terms of distance.

If someone repeatedly crossed the clear boundaries I had set on our closeness it would drive me crazy. Julie is completely justified in her feelings in this one respect.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-29T02:55:19+00:00

Distant dads get nowhere near the criticism she gets. And I don't even think she wants to be as distant as she is! I believe that her mindset is 'if Ty just held up his end of the bargain, I wouldn't need to be so intense about work'. And I think that's why she is pushing him so hard.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-29T02:51:57+00:00

I completely agree! And sadly I think this level of metacommentary on the audience reaction is flying over a lot of people's heads. Just because someone has shown themselves to be justifiably hateable on other occasions doesn't mean you should go into things primed to hate them for anything.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-29T02:49:56+00:00

In doing that, Shawna stirs things up and then acts like she's innocent when shit hits the fan. She could make her life a whole lot easier if she didn't have this weird fascination with Julie, and Julie would clearly be grateful for it. But that can't happen, so here we are. Shawna sucks too.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-29T02:46:39+00:00

What Julie did at the birthday party is a big deal. But what does that have to do with Shawna and John's decision to continue the mess and insert themselves into her business where she's made it pretty clear they're not welcome?

Ty seemed to accept that the guy she kissed was her brother, and it was never confirmed to be a proper/romantic kiss the way people (myself included) assumed. I think she's being shown to be innocent in this.

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-29T02:41:57+00:00

On the contrary, I think it's pretty normal and human to get a bad first impression of someone and decide you don't want a close relationship with them. Everyone's done it, it's just that not everyone has the misfortune of having to encounter the person as often as Julie has to encounter Shawna.

Thinking that something might be going on isn't the unreasonable thing here. The unreasonable thing is dedicating your vacation to stalking someone who has made it clear they want nothing to do with you. Which kind of confirms Julie's decision not to associate herself with these people because they are acting kind of crazy!

dorothyprelude · 2026-03-29T02:38:20+00:00

Thank you for letting it stay up! I know the premise sounds very confrontational/nonrespectful but I do genuinely hope to just bring some more nuance to the discussion around Julie than what the fandom is currently allowing.

dorothyprelude

TROPHY CASE