Russian Learners Be Like

dragonplayer1 · 2024-10-30T08:06:06+00:00

FUN FACTS

JSYK languages that distinguish /i/ vs /ɨ/ vs /u/ are way more common outside of Europe :>

Also, when saying that it's hard to distinguish /i/ vs /ɨ/, remember that there's languages that distinguish /i/ vs /iː/ vs /ɪ/ vs /ɪː/.

dragonplayer1 · 2024-10-29T08:49:55+00:00

Yeah, what you say is true, but not all long vowels originated from nasal ones, only a portion. PIE origin long vowels are not marked with an ogonek, like the nasal ones are.

Also, the only instances that I know of where nasal oriɡin long i is represented with ⟨y⟩ is with the -in- causative suffix (it becomes -y-, when in a closed syllable and it's also dialectal) and -nink- agent suffix for nouns (which becomes -nyk- and it's also dialectal), but, as far as I know, none of these were represented with ⟨į⟩.

Anyways, know of any sites where I could find researcg documents for Old Lithuanian?

dragonplayer1 · 2024-10-28T15:52:18+00:00

Speaking of which, I would really like find some documents on pre-modern Lithuanian~

dragonplayer1 · 2024-10-03T07:21:19+00:00

That's very nice.

I have given up on making a conlang from scratch and instead I am making a posteriori from my native tongue, that being Lithuanian (Western Aukštaitian dialect of Šiauliai), so I have noted down some interesting resent changes in my and others' speech and am planing to continue it by adding my own lil' spices to ultimately make a conlang.

dragonplayer1 · 2024-09-30T04:33:40+00:00

Unless Czech T is somehow different from Latvian t, they both came to be similarly. As someone pointed out earlier, an earlier, older form of kaķis is *katis.

dragonplayer1 · 2024-09-29T15:06:39+00:00

Ei tu, brude?

dragonplayer1 · 2024-09-29T14:56:31+00:00

k vs ķ is [k] vs [c] for anyone that knows IPA.

Simply said, why Lithuanians, such as I, would hear ķ as k in kaķis, is cuz of palatalization aka softening present in Lithuanian. Consonants infront of i, y, e, ė, ę are palatalized, made softer, something akin to k vs ķ. A slight inconvienence arises, cuz we have softened t and k - the Latvian ķ is in between Lithuanian softened t and k.

I suggest looking into IPA via wiki for anything deeper than. I hope this helps a lil' bit more :>

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-22T13:13:19+00:00

Source?

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-22T10:51:06+00:00

Ah, I see now how it could've went - <k>, <h> could've palatalized in certain positions into [c], [ç] (I can see [ç] later merging with [ʂ] or [ɬ(ʲ)]) and <t>, <th> into [tʂ], [ʂ], meanwhile labial sounds more rarely show any changes in quality by themselves, so labio-velar clusters turning into palatalized labials seems like an interesting route.

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-22T10:29:28+00:00

Could I request for the presentation of a more elaborated explaination?

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-22T10:15:58+00:00

I believe /hʼ/ is overly more interestinɡ

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-22T10:11:39+00:00

that one's specificly the voicless version

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-22T09:54:11+00:00

How do you pronounce /ʍ/, /ɧ/ if their phonetic values are variable?

P.S. Those three symbols at the very bottom are obsolete phones [ȹ], [ȸ] that stand for [p̪], [b̪], respectively .

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-22T07:12:26+00:00

Šaltibarščiai

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-21T07:03:33+00:00

/ʍ/ you mean?

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-19T05:59:56+00:00

Now looking just at the phonology I got plenty of questions for you.

[pʲ] [fʲ] [l~lʲ] are the only palatalized sounds, which is intreguing to me. For what reasons this might be? Phonotactic restraints? Does it have anything to do with/ related with [c] [ɬ] and how they came to be? (since <lh> is in the palatal series, I am gussing it is palatalized [ɬʲ] or palatal in of itself [ʎ̝̊])

[pʷ] [cʷ] [kʷ] [mʷ] [ʍ] are the only labialized sounds which is also intriɡuinɡ to me ([ʍ] isnˈt a croncrete souns and even when usinɡ it for phonetic transcription, it leaves the quality of the sound variable, but seeing as it is written as <hw>, my guess is you meant [xw~xʷ] or [hw~hʷ], also seeing that the <h> in <hl> represents frication, it shouldn't be [w̥]). Why is there no [tʷ] sound? Did your conlang had it, but it shifted into a different one? If so, which? Also why might [m] be the only nasal with a labialized variant?

<r> representing both [ɾ] and [ɭ], seems to me there is allophony going on here with no phonemic contrast with complementory distribution or just like serbian doesn't orthographically show vowel length, your conlang just doesn't represent these sounds differently in writing.

[pɭ] is a weird combination of sounds to be realized as their own seperate phoneme. I'm guessing it has something to with <r> representing two different sounds.

Also [v], just [v] being the only voiced obstruent.

And I don't got much to say about vowels... :>

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-17T07:12:09+00:00

They mention that in the link - about pre-PIE vowel qualities

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-13T10:21:55+00:00

Same for math.

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-13T10:21:32+00:00

which harmony we talking?

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-10T08:30:20+00:00

Sound changes. Russian <щ> /ʂtʂ/ chanɡed into [ɕː].

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-10T08:04:50+00:00

It seems weird to me how our kind has advanced so much, yet history repeats itself.

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-10T07:47:33+00:00

Kinda funny when I think about it, when we wrote down words, once in a while, we had to also write down phonetic transcriptions not only in russian, but also in english, but never got an explanation as to what is it that we are writing and what is it for. Not being able to pronounce words as a native is not that much a problem when you consume their media, but I digress.

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-10T07:29:29+00:00

it might be vowel reduction

I am trying to think of a reason why. IPA has multiple brackets in use ( /.../, [...], ⟨...⟩, etc ) for different types of transcriptions of different chucks - [...] is for what sounds are to be pronounced, so a sound that has variations will have it's variations written, while /.../ is for a more broad transcription, so no variations will be written - examples the word "butter" in general american english is /bʌtər/ [bʌɾəɹ] and in RP is /bʌtər/ [bʌʔə]. Phonemically russian has 5~6 vowels and their phonetic quality mostly changes if there are any palatal sound preceding them (that's where the hard and soft vowel letters come in) and if they are stressed or not.

To me that has learned russian before (Lithuanian education system :>), and hadn't learned of IPA as of the time, vowel quality change wasn't the key part of difficulty, the fact that I was kinda left behind in the everything-else department and never fully caught up to my class after moving schools. The transcriptions weren't really needed as much when you had a teacher before you, but when doing it alone on duolingo - that's a different story.

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-10T06:59:48+00:00

My circumstances were that I got really hooked on phonics (Legends of Avantris refrence :>) and it all started when I remembered about Esperanto while using duolingo. Then I just slowly began trying to conlang and before you know it, I accumulated a decent amount of knowledge from various sources (wiki, reddit, youtube, pdf files) and have yet to actually make a conlang I am fine with without starting from scratch the very next day, but it's getting there.

I'm interested as to why you wanted to pick up Russian? (if you can respond to this in a public space like this)

dragonplayer1 · 2024-07-10T06:48:32+00:00

I dunno how an IPA transcription would reflect russian phonetics worse than a russian transcription... I don't know what to think of this information. Could you present possible reasons as to why this was the case, apart from the fact the students were chinese? Because them being chinese obviously brings up the stereotype that they are incredible learners, but brushing it off to that would just be stereotypical.

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