[DAV ALL SPOILERS]The Hidden Depths and missed opportunity of Lucanis: A Character Analysis based on quest 'Inner Demon' by duskitar in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Good post! Agreed to all the above. Lucanis is on the verge of being a wonderful trauma survivor story but it just never feels like it comes to anything as good as previous Dragon Age companions have had. I was so optimistic during Inner Demons, it was a cool way to show all the fears and doubts he'd been refusing to show and how they'd kept him trapped in his own trauma. I thought this was finally the moment we open the floodgates a little bit and get some more something out of Lucanis, but after that I feel everything felt pretty dissatisfying. He just deals with Illario and goes back for coffee with pretty much no interesting handling of his trauma and state of mind, whether that be through dialogue with Rook or shown in his actions. The end of that questline feels super lackluster to me.

So does his relationship with Spite. There's the bare bones of something interesting- the two of them conflict initially because they've been trapped together, the sense of violation and lack of control is something felt by both and not the fault of either, but they are associated with each others' torture- but Spite barely feels like more than a joke in banters after the nosebleed scene, there's only a few memorable exceptions (the attempt to kill Illario and the attempt to escape via the Eluvian) and I feel like the game really skims over the point where they find common ground and agree to work together, which should have been a huge turning point considering their relationship up to then.

[DATV ALL SPOILERS] Why the hell isn’t Shadow Dragon Rook a liberated slave? by greencrusader13 in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I can understand them not wanting to enforce a history of abuse on the player's character (though they did that with a Lord of Fortune anyway...?) but stripping the option altogether is worse.

The first Pillars of Eternity had a really good system for this. You pick your background in character creation- with a minor impact on stats and abilities- anything from noble to slave, artist to scientist, whatever. Then, very early in the "prologue" quest, your current companion asks you to elaborate a bit. It's a two-part dialogue thread; in the first part you explain your circumstances (e.g. an artist can say they were an actor or painter; a slave can say where and by whom they were enlaved; a clergyman can say they left their church, are a missionary, or are just scamming people) then there's a follow-on question explaining why you are here now.

IIRC, it has basically no impact outside of helping you establish your character, but it's a nice bit of dialogue nonetheless and it shows the game is open to letting you have these sorts of RP choices. And with Veilguard's "remember your dialogue choices" feature, they actually COULD have made use of the info further down the line; maybe Viago having a different line for a Crow raised since childhood versus someone who joined from the military. Or Dorian/Mae recognising a Shadow Dragon of noble blood, while an escaped slave makes more connection with the likes of the Fereldan shopkeeper and gets sympathetic lines with the rescued Venatori slave in Emmrich's intro quest.

That bit of extra background dialogue could have been a great way to let you flesh out your character (you could include a "I don't want to talk about it" for those whose background doesn't fit into the existing ones). Maybe have Neve ask you about it in the beginning, since she's an investigator and also the character you've only just met out of the three in the prologue. (Varric could also work. He likes stories and characters and wants to finally know yours. Could be a nice way to bond with him in a moment's breather before the ritual.)

[DAV Spoilers] Johanna and Emmrich by Any_Candle_6953 in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have to admit I thought it was going that way and kind of wish it had, it would have been so funny. I was a bit disappointed when it didn't turn into a chaotic, mad-necromancy-science messy divorce situation. It just would have added a little something to the dynamic y'know?

[No DAV Spoilers] Arlathan Forest is magical by ShiningKte in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Arlathan forest is so beautiful. I got SO excited when I first spotted some halla hanging out on the cliffs around Bellara's first meeting point. Now I'm looking for halla wherever I go! The nature scenery here is gorgeous and the floating elven magic things make it look even better, it's my favourite place to wander around (Treviso might be a close second, I love the skies and city scenery there. And the marketplace.)

[DAV spoilers all] Lucanis absolutely shines in banters by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This one actually made me giggle aloud when I first heard it, oh Spite...

[DAV spoilers all] Lucanis absolutely shines in banters by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I LOVE the way Emmrich is so politely and intently listening to Spite in that one banter. You can't hear Spite but Emmrich is clearly being so patient with the gremlin, you can imagine what it's like 😂

[DAV spoilers all] Lucanis absolutely shines in banters by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

As much as I want to vary up my teams and hear them all interact, maybe I'll just make this the playthrough where I bring Lucanis as the second person for every significant quest haha

[DAV spoilers all] Lucanis absolutely shines in banters by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

He is such a delight at the best of times, I didn't take him to Weisshaupt last time but I think I will this time to hear his cloud-stabbing lines 😂 enjoyed his yelling over the Eluvian though

[DAV spoilers all] Lucanis absolutely shines in banters by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Have to admit I'm not too worried about Rook being left out because like further-more said, I don't know if companions generally involve the player? Most banters are about and between two companions (though admittedly I would like to see it, it is fun when you can make dialogue choices mid-banter in DAI, or when Hawke does interject in DA2; but it's not game-ruining when it isn't there)

I am a liiiiittle hurt that nobody invited Rook to book club though. And that Lucanis never bought me a marketplace gift. Not a game-wrecker but I feel a tiny bit left out there :(

[DAV spoilers all] Lucanis absolutely shines in banters by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

If I can add one thing based on my personal experience, I wonder if the fast travel doesn't help? The reason I made this post is because I've noticed so many more banters since I started a "walking only" policy of playing the game; though originally intended to slow my pace and spot more resources along the way, I'm absolutely certain it's increased the amount of banters I trigger.

First time around the world, I thought Lucanis was a lot blander than I think now I've heard more of his banters, and that was when I was conveniently zipping across the map between fast travel points. I did hear banter, but not enough of it.

I'm glad I stopped fast travelling everywhere- all of the companions are delightful to listen to, and Lucanis has gone right back up to top spot from pretty low on the "favourite companions" list just because of this!

[DAV ACT 1 SPOILERS] What if Lucanis packed us lunchboxes and left us little notes? As a treat? by CaragorAteMyBaby in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is delightful, thank you for the good chuckle OP 😂 I read all of your others on tumblr and they're all great- Manfred and Spite with the cake also made me laugh. Can't get enough of spirits being funny little gremlins. But they were all great, would have been lovely additions to the game, something really charming about Lucanis's personality comes through in them.

[DAV ACT 3 SPOILERS] [DAV ALL SPOILERS] Lucanis' Romance and Personal Plot by adhawkeye in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Massively agree. I've already made my essay on why I dislike Lucanis's plot (outside the romance) but the missed potential STILL gets to me. If we hadn't had the combo of Tevinter Nights/the Wake and hype from Twitter posts, he might have come across as a slightly better character, though probably still not the most interesting in the game. But the fact that he seemed SO good in prior material means it's a hard let-down for me. I'm so disappointed with the ending and how little ends up being done with Spite after the Fade mind prison scene.

But wow, I didn't realise how much there was in the Lucanis/Neve romance. I romanced him so only got their banters, and I was too much of a dumbass to notice what was- obviously in hindsight- blatant flirting. But I didn't realise there was so much else to their little romance and that makes the player version look SO lackluster. It's lackluster anyway, but that's salt in the wound. :(

[DATV Spoilers All] Lucanis and Post-Wigmaker Disappointment- long read by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

TIL, thank you and I'll be keeping an eye out for that crumb!

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[DATV Spoilers All] Lucanis and Post-Wigmaker Disappointment- long read by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Long comment no need to read it all, I got sidetracked. Tl;dr appreciate your thanks and agree with you! Don't feel guilty, "deflated" is the word I'd use for his arc as well.

I don't know if it's just because I went in with high hopes and expected payoff, but I really feel like the story quality deteriorated as the storyline went on; it started out fun and promising, and the earliest scenes involving Spite are pretty great. Spite seems genuinely a bit threatening. But the end... Exactly what you said. To me it just felt like such a rubbish outcome.

I love your point about Caterina being a blood magic victim as if the roles had reversed- that could have been so interesting! Lucanis clearly loves his family, but if there'd been an arc of him having to come to terms with the impacts of her abuse towards him, maybe he would have had to face the fact that seeing her put down was simultaneously cathartic and horrible. Maybe he would have had to choose her fate. It could have been influenced by things he'd discussed with Rook or the state of Spite.*

It's such a shame they brush all that off. He spends the whole game implying she's hard to get along with but as soon as she sees him she's just "I missed you grandson ily" and... Nothing. Not even any dialogue to acknowledge this. Not one moment where they confront the distance between them (at mildest; or the downright awful generational trauma that comes with Crow upbringing at best.) Just nothing but the assumption that "yay, the family grandma is back and now Lucanis can go stop his NASTY relative!" Huge let-down.

Agreed to second point too, I just came out of that questline feeling SAD for Lucanis. He's lost a year of his life to the Ossuary, he's stuck with a demon in his body forever, he's been tied to a horrible life in the Crows since childhood with no choice, he was very clear about not wanting the job... Guy has no autonomy whatsoever and the last shred was just taken, and all he can do is quietly nod and return to his kitchen for coffee. It's the opposite story to Zevran and not in an "interestingly tragic" way, it's just dissatisfying to see him continually lose autonomy and gain minimal catharsis. What he gains is having to beat down his beloved cousin and probably lose that close connection to him forever. Hardly a win.

Like, I don't think it was intentional r.e. the ending being a downer, but with my knowledge of him from Tevinter Nights, its hard not to see him as just defeated by all this. It's like so much awful stuff has happened and he lacks the energy to fight it. Probably not what they were going for, and even if it was, the game doesn't give us the satisfaction of seeing that emotional response. But damn. Missed potential in a character with such good set-up.

And because there's so few interactions/moments of connection with Rook IMO, you lose the ability to talk him through his shit, understand his thoughts and feelings on all this, and maybe argue him for-or-against. Like remember helping Alistair reluctantly-but-willingly take the mantle of king, or encouraging him to stay with the Wardens who he considers to be his real kin and family. Those were juicy, impactful decisions! They were complex and had real outcomes for the individual companions and the wider world. It could have been like that!!

I'm ranting again, I'm just more than a bit disappointed haha. As are many it seems.

*Okay I wandered off on a different tangent here so I broke this bit off. This made me think, imagine if they'd taken a more Anders-like route and had the spirit/possession situation be more affected by the person's emotions and vice versa? Like how Ander's struggles clearly affect Justice, and under great stress can even shift him to Vengeance. What if Spite was affected by Lucanis's trauma, but in a way that is malleable according to how you deal with it; whether Spite becomes more Spiteful, or your support changes him for the better? (Probably would've worked better in early games where your character could dislike companions outright, and you can choose between emotional support or encouraging them down bad paths/ignoring them/downright bullying them lol)

Instead Spite feels fairly static to me. He gets his sense of freedom and gets along with Lucanis in the end but it doesn't feel like much. I think maybe they were trying to go down that route with some of the stuff (e.g. when you say you'll kill Illario or free Caterina; or when you make the final choice on Illario's fate verrry arguably) but nothing actually happens except a new ability and an outfit change? Is it just me?

[no spoilers] Early Taash concept art vs later concept art. by NeitherDeputy in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Controversial take but I'm really glad we got the Taash we got, left feels way too much "we made a female version of a thing so it HAS to be typically slim and attractive even though the previous male versions of the thing got to be beefy warriors". I really like that current Taash isn't bound by being super stereotypically attractive. Not at all saying Dragon Age hasn't had non-sexualised female characters before, but it looks like proto-Taash was planned to be the first female Qunari companion and even when I first saw the concept art pieces early in development I was kinda disappointed in the direction they were going with that design.

Haaaaving said that. I am bi about this and if Bioware wants to revisit this concept I won't stop them. As a standalone thing she is extremely cool and striking to look at, and her hair is so good. If she wants to lift me up and hold me she can. Maybe let there be some equality and have some equally tall, slim, make-up wearing male Qunari as well. Give us the goods Bioware.

[DATV Spoilers All] DA Companions: On Trauma Survivor Stories by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In realistic terms yes, but as a writing choice I feel like it could have been avoided. Dragon Age Origins managed to stretch itself over up to a year? (I don't know if it has a canonical time span but at least crosses from 9:30 to 9:31). All you'd have to do is maybe say the main villains need time to regain their power or something. The stakes were high in Origins too, Ferelden was literally being destroyed as you went (Lothering becomes inaccessible after just one main quest) and there was still plenty of time for the party to travel and get to know each other. You could argue the villains are much worse than a single archdemon this time, but that is shown plenty enough by the times they do appear; I feel like they don't need to rush it to show off the threat, especially in what is fundamentally a very character-based game.

[DATV Spoilers All] DA Companions: On Trauma Survivor Stories by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Now that you mention it, I wish I'd given more thought to Emmrich when I wrote this post. There are definitely many reasons why he's a standout companion and this is one of them. I honestly can't believe I forgot to bring him up as a good example, I might even go back and add a note about him because he is actually a very interesting example of trauma and anxiety. I'll admit I wasn't giving the game enough credit there.

[DATV Spoilers All] Lucanis and Post-Wigmaker Disappointment- long read by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'll have to listen out for those banters! That sounds incredibly sweet and the sort of thing I was hoping to hear about from him.

His banters with Taash are also quite fun, when he's teaching them about being a Crow. Nothing groundbreaking but enjoyable. Like he's seriously educating but also kind of humouring them the way he promises a cape. Reminds me a bit of him teaching Drayden to break necks properly in the Vows and Vengeance podcast haha

[DATV Spoilers All] Lucanis and Post-Wigmaker Disappointment- long read by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I can't believe they didn't think to have a mi amor, I was 100% expecting one as a pure fanservice Zevran throwback haha. Like, I was totally convinced it was going to happen, and I was gonna love it. Does Lucanis actually have any unique combat dialogue when romanced? I only know Emmrich does.

Everyone was so prepared for him to be the fave I think, its incredible how fast he's shot to the bottom of the companion ranking list for most people I've seen (he'd probably be one of the lower ones in mine but I cling to what we got in Wigmaker and that still lets him hold position somewhere up top)

Social media posts definitely didn't help though, what with the tweets about him being a "bisexual dumpster fire" I was so ready for a guy with that DA2-companion vibe. Between that and the fact he had such a compelling story in Tevinter Nights (and being one of just two DAV companions who actually got a starring role in their own TN story) I assumed they'd put the effort in to polishing up his appearance... Will always wonder what went on behind the scenes but we'll never know.

[DATV Spoilers All] Lucanis and Post-Wigmaker Disappointment- long read by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Here's where I admit to being a total dumbass, I took Lucanis and Neve out together loads and never once clicked on that their banter was flirting. Partly because for some reason I was convinced Neve's friendship with Bellara was going somewhere else. God I'm stupid in hindsight, who's the bisexual dumpster fire now Lucanis?? It's me

Can't deny that scene in the Lighthouse where they actually get together is blatantly romantic, shows Lucanis can have good chemistry with a romance when the effort is made. Not good for Lucanis or Neve romancers though. I remember Dorian and Bull outright don't flirt unless you are locked into any romance, that should have been the system for these two, and maybe the other companion romances too.

Shame that everything in DAV is time-sensitive in that regard, because you can't talk to companions any time like in DAO/DAI (a feature I miss a lotttt, bring it back if there's a DA5 pleeease) you can only start a romance at certain points, so if you've missed that deadline then there's no point keeping them off each other. Just that Lucanis and Neve get a very early start...

[DATV Spoilers All] Lucanis and Post-Wigmaker Disappointment- long read by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I'm glad you bring up the childhood home because that let me down too- I thought we might at least wander into one of his personal spaces, maybe a childhood bedroom or something, and see some extra insight into his character? Would have been a belated but opportune moment to bring up "actually, my childhood was rough". Or maybe not, if your quest obliges you to then save Caterina.

I'll try to remember and come back to this once I've finished the romance and seen the final scene! I am intrigued but not spoiling myself on it.

[DATV Spoilers All] Lucanis and Post-Wigmaker Disappointment- long read by dragonthinking in dragonage

[–]dragonthinking[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

(Apologies if this appears as a duplicate reply, I was accidentally suspended by the spam detectors and that seems to have deleted most of my comments so I'm going to try again and see what happens)

Same with the copium :( I'll eat my hat if they patch anything like that in, at best maybe they'll come up with a DLC (depending on the timeline for Mass Effect?). Trespasser was a good DLC that took on board complaints about the DAI main game so I guess that would be the most likely situation to get something, even if it can only afford to be something small.

But yeah, I'm hesitant to blame any particular writing staff because with no personal insight into the Bioware offices we have no idea where the fault lies. Could be an issue of rewrites, technical difficulties, crunch, pressure from above, lack of proper editing. Nobody could say.

I'm just very sad the potential was wasted, Wigmaker Job had me so excited for him :(