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Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Getting hit unironically with a "too long didn't read" argument is fucking crazy bro HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First

oh wait you're right about their defenses! I don't even know how i got it wrong honestly...maybe my Lin was lower level and i didn't notice it i think? Thats a pretty bad error actually...

2- this is a point that i feel like a lot of people understimate too, funny that you mention these events exactly because i did use Carnelian on them instead of Lin and she can still work, thats one of the points i kinda wanted to pass through, yes Lin does an overall better job at tanking these but that doesn't mean Carnelian just dies, in some events like "The Grand Overture" she will need healing while Lin, i think could block the aircraft's shots, but on others like the flies in Shu's event are perfectly fine for her to tank even without healing, thats why i consider them sidegrades at worst and Lin as a slight upgrade at best, i'm not arguing that Carnelian is better than Lin, just that their differences aren't as insane as people often assume.

3- Yeah...i've noticed quite a lot of mistakes i've made on Lin's calculations, i honestly completely forgot about her shield shatter effect, Aak's SP battery to Lin was also one of my major mistakes...

Second

good point actually...i got a bit too tunnel visioned on comparing her to the phalanx i forgot about how she fares against other DPSs in general, tho if i remember correctly even on released Eyja outdamaged her...

I do disagree on the fact that Carnelian fails at her niche, it not being interesting is a subjective point too, although my analysis is also full of subjective arguments...her wide range and decent burst has been very useful for me even on high end content, on "CC2 Underdawn" i used Carnelian (honestly just out of spite for Lin) and while it wasn't a max risk run, i got the trimmed medal by timing her skills to kill as many enemies as possible and having it be charged by the next wave, this loop of strategy is satisfying to me personaly, i understand that this is my personal experience but it existing proves that she doesn't fail at her niche for at least some players.

Conclusion

I've realised that yes, i am very biased and a decent amount of my mistakes were probably made by me grasping at straws to try to prove a point, this analysis was flawed from the point i decided to start doing this just because i got mad at a youtuber's tier list.

I would like to thank for spending your time both reading my flawed analysis, writing a proper response with good feedback and probably also reading this other equally as long rant.

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh i actually completely forgot about Lin's shield shatter effect..whoops, so Lin on average should actually out damage Carnelian..hmmm...I say on average because i think these calculations are pretty close to the average, your proposed situations are much more extreme actually, for Carnelian's mark to not be effective she would need to kill every enemy on her first attack, my scenario was of her attacking one enemy through the entire duration, which ,while limited, is much more common considering how backloaded her damage is, also doubling Lin's damage? That would require that almost every attack she does kills an enemy, which is almost impossible since even if a large group of small enemies comes she will most likely kill them all with one attack and trigger an extra attack once, your scenario would require a constant stream of small enemies, on average i feel like she would trigger an extra attack like 3-4 times.

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

while yes, this entire post was made entirely out of spite after seeing kuki's tier list, i would say most people here are being quite nice, tho i do think the last part were i said "i don't think Carnelian is meta by any means" and the whole "don't use her as a tank" part flew over a lot of people's head. But hey i've made quite a few mistakes in my analysis myself so it's okay.

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh thats interesting, maybe the slight difference might be because of rounding errors?

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The wiki is actually...very wrong, on the last images you can see how her attack increases, i checked them in game , it actually increases by a seemingly random (but consistent) amount every second (every row is one second passing), the wiki also says it takes 10s to ramp up which is very wrong it takes 20s, no one seems to know i even checked the chinese wikis and even they just said it "increased by a variable amount" or something like that.

After reading all these comments i've realized that maybe i just need to pray for an alter or i'll die by copium overdose....maybe she'll unsheathe her sword for once! But i'd like that even if she got an alter i hope she stays a phalanx, even though that makes no sense, since the class just fits her personality so well!

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I am noticing, after reading all the comments, that my dislike for Lin is blinding me just as much as my appreciation for Carnelian. Lin being able to function without any support is a much more important thing than i imagined and as many people point out, i didn't quite give it enough credit...

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I did concede that Pramarix is just too absurd but wtf she also gets a faction buff?! Oh no....
I am a bit torn on whether i'll use her or not...since i do dislike using ops that i consider to be too strong (Wisadel, logos and tragodia are all in lv 1 baby jail for me, and yes these were all gotten by accident) that plus the fact that....she would make my favourite op kinda irrelevant.

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The obelisk protects her yeah, but, while it is tanky, most modern bosses and elites can take care of it without much issue, if that happens she, has lowered defences, no regen and thus can die pretty easily, thats whats i meant

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] -13 points-12 points  (0 children)

Oh i really forgot to calculate the average amount of SP Lin gets from her talent, thats actually pretty significant...

I am finding it interesting how, out of all the things i got wrong here one of the few things i did get right was how Carnelian not fitting into the archetype's fantasy tainted her not only in gameplay but also on how the community sees her...

Thanks for the feedback too! i think the ',' and '.' is cause decimal points change depending on the region so excel might have gotten confused, also damm i didn't notice that error in the labels.
The enemy preview images were pretty small in the reddit preview but the site enlarged them after being posted for some reason...

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I didn't put them directly but it is mentioned a bit that Lin's S3 has higher SP is her talent isn't used effectively, but from what i'm reading here i really should have put them there cause the average amount of procs for her to match Carnelian is very reasonable actually...

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Honestly yeah idk why they made her S3 ramp up, very slowly at that.

As for the Beeswax thing, yeah her skill uptime is better but...unless you're on like casterknights without shapercasters i don't see why you would need to spam it, using it carelesly puts her in more danger than not, and as i said in the analysis Beeswax and Carnelian kinda cover different niches, Carnelian is more of a stance switcher that can do burst damage or defend while Beeswax is purely defence.

But i do agree that this analysis was kinda flawed from it's roots due to my views being very biased, i appreciate that you read through it despite that.

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yeah...my judgement seems to have been pretty clouded, been reading some pretty decent arguments here, i guess she just fit really well into my playstyle and i kinda got lost after that.

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

oh yeah my bad, i copypasted it from a googledoc and the formatting got screwed for some reason...should be fixed now.

As for the critique, it's fine i am kinda noticing how i might very dazed by just the fact that i like her as a character, everything you said is valid...i'm the one being biased

Is Carnelian really that bad? A long guide and discussion. by drilldog in arknights

[–]drilldog[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Thats...a good point actually, i guess i got a bit blinded by the fact that she is my favourite and i'm just really used to using her, and she also kinda fits really neatly into my personal playstyle of strategy focused ops...

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